Originally posted by carpedm9587
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Creating God
Collapse
X
-
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSorry, MM, but that simply is not true. If it were, I wouldn't be atheist.
You can't just label a belief "properly basic" and make it so by fiat. Properly basic beliefs are rare, and belief in god is not one of them - despite Plantinga's assertions.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - I am describing the world as it exists - and I believe that it exists without a god. So this explanation helps flesh out why the notion of a "punisher god" is so pervasive in the variety of extant religions..
The short version is that your belief here is based on a begged question. In order to know whether or not your theory is correct, you would have to conclusively disprove the existence of God.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLike I said at the start, "the problem with this and similar theories is that they don't disprove God but simply presuppose that he doesn't exist and then try to rationalize why so many people believe that he does."
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe short version is that your belief here is based on a begged question. In order to know whether or not your theory is correct, you would have to conclusively disprove the existence of God.
For the atheist - who has already concluded that a god does not exist - this theory provides an explanation for the pervasive belief in such beings in our various religions. For the theist, especially the one that believes they have had a "personal encounter" with this being, they are probably not going to be convinced about the link between social needs and this belief system. But then they are in a position of having to explain why the concept of punisher gods tends to emerge in societies at that point in their development, and are largely absent in smaller groups.Last edited by carpedm9587; 12-01-2018, 12:29 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOf course it can. Belief in God is properly basic.
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-basic-beliefs
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIt's not clear to me that the study makes any presuppositions about gods - merely about the link between beliefs and social needs.
Actually - no. Sociology traces behavior links to causes at a social level - and does so without any presuppositions about the truth of those beliefs. In other words, beliefs about a punisher god could very well have formed to solve a social problem - and the punisher god could actually exist. Or beliefs about a punisher god could have formed to solve a social problem - and the punisher god could not exist. The theory around the formation of the beliefs is not a claim about whether or not such a god exists, and does not presuppose an answer to that question.
For the atheist - who has already concluded that a god does not exist - this theory provides an explanation for the pervasive belief in such beings in our various religions. For the theist, especially the one that believes they have had a "personal encounter" with this being, they are probably not going to be convinced about the link between social needs and this belief system. But then they are in a position of having to explain why the concept of punisher gods tends to emerge in societies at that point in their development, and are largely absent in smaller groups.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe in God, the concept of the 'belief in God is properly basic.' and is not a meaningful argument for the existence of God.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's not an argument for God's existence but that belief in God is reasonable and rational in and of itself.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostStill not meaningful, because there is a wide range and variety of beliefs that can be described as reasonable and rational in and of itself including atheism.
As for atheism, I'm not certain it qualifies as properly basic because there's no way to Intuit it.
http://www.rightreason.org/2011/coul...-basic-belief/
To put it another way, atheism is a response to another belief and not a basic belief in and of itself.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe point is that any argument that begins with the assumption that belief in God is inherently irrational is starting on the wrong foot.
As for atheism, I'm not certain it qualifies as properly basic because there's no way to Intuit it.
http://www.rightreason.org/2011/coul...-basic-belief/
To put it another way, atheism is a response to another belief and not a basic belief in and of itself.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou're not really refuting anything I've said.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostAtheism is a (properly basic belief) because that is all that we have empirical evidence of.
But now I'm curious, what is the empirical evidence that God doesn't exist? I'd love to see what you have -- or think you have.
Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostIntuition as a basis for a (properly basic belief) is nonsense.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostExcept your claim that the article presupposes the non-existence of god.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostExcept your claim that the article presupposes the non-existence of god.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 04-22-2024, 06:28 PM
|
17 responses
104 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
04-23-2024, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-17-2024, 08:31 AM
|
70 responses
403 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-26-2024, 05:47 AM | ||
Started by whag, 04-09-2024, 01:04 PM
|
288 responses
1,299 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Yesterday, 09:10 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 02-04-2024, 05:06 AM
|
214 responses
1,059 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Yesterday, 08:07 AM | ||
Started by whag, 01-18-2024, 01:35 PM
|
49 responses
370 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
05-15-2024, 02:53 PM
|
Comment