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Should Trump's economy make us ignore his lying, attacks on individuals and the press

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  • #16
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And why do you know about that, assuming it's an accurate characterization of what has happened (I find most of those accusations fall flat, but sometimes it happens). But again - how do you find out about it?


    Jim
    In the case of NBC withholding exculpatory information on the Kavenaugh hearing, it was the Republican investigators who exposed the deception of NBC, who then came clean. Kinda sorta.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Source: https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-nazis-and-the-german-economy/

      The Nazis and the German Economy
      Citation: C N Trueman "The Nazis And The German Economy"
      historylearningsite.co.uk. The History Learning Site, 9 Mar 2015. 11 Oct 2018.
      Germany’s economy was in a mess when Hitler was elected Chancellor in January 1933. Hitler and Nazipropaganda had played on the population’s fear of no hope. Unemployment peaked at 6 million during the final days of the Weimar Republic – near enough 33% of the nation’s working population. Now Hitler decreed that all should work in Nazi Germany and he constantly played on the economic miracle Nazi Germany achieved.

      This “economic miracle” was based on unemployment all but disappearing by 1939.

      © Copyright Original Source



      The simple answer is no, it should not. In fact, his mimicking of Hitlers attacks on the press, his close associations with nationalism, his approaches to immigration, his constant lying, and a clear dose of 20/20 hindsight should make us very, very cautious about excusing these things because 'some of what he does (e.g. improving unemployment) is good'.

      Jim
      For one thing, I wouldn't call it Trumps economy, Trump simply gave Obama's economic success a short burst, mostly favoring the wealthy, at the expense of the increasing debt ($1.9 trillion) that hypocritical republicans all of a sudden no longer seem to be concerned about. Besides that, a small amount of more spending money in the average americans pocket means nothing when millions of them because of the republican policies have lost their health insurance. But I agree, even if I had appreciation for the stupid reckless policies of Trump, they would be no reason to ignore his Putinesque tendencies.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        And why do you know about that, assuming it's an accurate characterization of what has happened (I find most of those accusations fall flat, but sometimes it happens). But again - how do you find out about it?


        Jim
        As CP showed, they were exposed and forced to come clean. Not because of some sudden burst of integrity. Face it, the media is just as bad about the truth as you say Trump is.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          yes
          Doesn't CP's "no" mean "we should not ignore Trump's lying due to a good economy?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            In the case of NBC withholding exculpatory information on the Kavenaugh hearing, it was the Republican investigators who exposed the deception of NBC, who then came clean. Kinda sorta.
            This article provides a somewhat more nuanced view of what happened. This was in the midst of a hot news cycle when all the outlets were racing to "get the scoop." AFAICT, what they did was report on the claim (which was true and newsworthy), and then clarify that it was not substantiated by secondary sources. I'm not seeing where "exculpatory information" was being withheld. What was this exculpatory information? Can you point me to it?
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              For one thing, I wouldn't call it Trumps economy, Trump simply gave Obama's economic success a short burst, mostly favoring the wealthy, at the expense of the increasing debt ($1.9 trillion) that hypocritical republicans all of a sudden no longer seem to be concerned about. Besides that, a small amount of more spending money in the average americans pocket means nothing when millions of them because of the republican policies have lost their health insurance. But I agree, even if I had appreciation for the stupid reckless policies of Trump, they would be no reason to ignore his Putinesque tendencies.
              my thread comes opposite threads giving Trump credit for significant improvements in unemployment. So I chose not to debate that characterization, because there have been several push backs on my focus on the lying, the abuse, the disregard for basic freedoms that point to Trumps effect on the economy, as if the opposite of my point, as if major attacks on fundamental elements of the democracy (the press) or the abuse of presidential power in targeting individuals are mitigated by a good economy or low unemployment.


              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Doesn't CP's "no" mean "we should not ignore Trump's lying due to a good economy?
                It does. I posted a follow up. I should have had an exclamation point, or just been less terse. Yes!, as in, finally someone agrees without qualification with something said that should be obvious!


                Jim
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  It does. I posted a follow up. I should have had an exclamation point, or just been less terse. Yes!, as in, finally someone agrees without qualification with something said that should be obvious!

                  Jim
                  Yeah - I saw that after and should have amended my post. I tend to read threads in chronological order and response as I see things that seem "response-worthy." I should probably read the entire thread before I write anything at all...
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Doesn't CP's "no" mean "we should not ignore Trump's lying due to a good economy?
                    Yes.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Yeah - I saw that after and should have amended my post. I tend to read threads in chronological order and response as I see things that seem "response-worthy." I should probably read the entire thread before I write anything at all...
                      True.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The thing about this question is what it ignores. Lies and dishonesty are not excusable. However this question is itself dishonest. It ignores the fact that the lies nd dishonesty do not come from Trump, but from politicians and media in general. To pick out Trump alone is simply extreme bias. As I have said before, I do not much care for Trump. But to pretend that he is in any significantly way different from Republicans and Democrats is "a clear example of "lying, attacks on individuals."

                        Deal with issues rather than personalities.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          The thing about this question is what it ignores. Lies and dishonesty are not excusable. However this question is itself dishonest. It ignores the fact that the lies nd dishonesty do not come from Trump, but from politicians and media in general. To pick out Trump alone is simply extreme bias. As I have said before, I do not much care for Trump. But to pretend that he is in any significantly way different from Republicans and Democrats is "a clear example of "lying, attacks on individuals."

                          Deal with issues rather than personalities.
                          Donald Trump has gone way beyond the normal, or the excusable, or even the normal inexcusable. Trump is singled out because he is the extreme.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Donald Trump has gone way beyond the normal, or the excusable, or even the normal inexcusable. Trump is singled out because he is the extreme.

                            Jim
                            He really isn't. He's about average for a politician in this category.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                              He really isn't. He's about average for a politician in this category.
                              Now THAT is funny.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                The thing about this question is what it ignores. Lies and dishonesty are not excusable. However this question is itself dishonest. It ignores the fact that the lies nd dishonesty do not come from Trump, but from politicians and media in general. To pick out Trump alone is simply extreme bias. As I have said before, I do not much care for Trump. But to pretend that he is in any significantly way different from Republicans and Democrats is "a clear example of "lying, attacks on individuals."

                                Deal with issues rather than personalities.
                                Regarding the underlined section, if you REALLY think this is true, you have not been listening to the man. He regularly, consistently makes statements that are demonstrably untrue. Sometimes, they are simply stupidly untrue and easily checked. Making a verbal slip is excusable. Repeating the same error over and over and over in speech and interview after interview, after it has been widely publicly debunked, is lying - pure and simple.

                                If you truly think Trump does not lie, then I have to conclude that you are either extremely divorced from reality, or your are biased for Trump to an unbelievable degree.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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