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What does John 20:23 mean?

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  • What does John 20:23 mean?

    John 20: 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 After saying this, He breathed on them and said,[d] “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

    Surely these Scriptures do not mean we can forgive and retain the sins of others. After all, we are all sinners.

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Hebrew and Aramaic verbs (Jesus spoke Aramaic) have a causative form, such as "if you cause to be forgiven" or "cause to be retained". We don't do the forgiving, but by spreading the Gospel, we can help bring about that forgiveness.
    When I Survey....

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    • #3
      Non-Orthodox/Catholic interpreters more or less have to discern something along Faber's lines in order to make sense of the verse. A much more straightforward reading is that Jesus delegated the authority to forgive sins (which he had from the Father, and proved in Mat. 9:6) to the apostles here, which in turn was passed on to their successors in Catholic/Orthodox tradition. This is why priests absolve sins after confession.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        I have thought that this meant the priesthood of believers, where in corporate fellowship (the "you" here in this verse is plural), in church discipline, sins can be forgiven--or not.

        "The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him..." (2 Cor. 2:6-7)

        "... and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Mat. 18:17-18)

        Blessings,
        Lee
        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Non-Orthodox/Catholic interpreters more or less have to discern something along Faber's lines in order to make sense of the verse. A much more straightforward reading is that Jesus delegated the authority to forgive sins (which he had from the Father, and proved in Mat. 9:6) to the apostles here, which in turn was passed on to their successors in Catholic/Orthodox tradition. This is why priests absolve sins after confession.
          Amen, its the simplest interpretation and its how the early Church read it.

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          • #6
            This verse was a topic of discussion within this thread.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

            Justice for Matthew Perna!

            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Faber View Post
              Hebrew and Aramaic verbs (Jesus spoke Aramaic) have a causative form, such as "if you cause to be forgiven" or "cause to be retained". We don't do the forgiving, but by spreading the Gospel, we can help bring about that forgiveness.
              I found this commentary by John Gill that I think says it well:

              John 20:23
              Whose soever sins ye remit

              God only can forgive sins, and Christ being God, has a power to do so likewise; but he never communicated any such power to his apostles; nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves, or pretend to exercise it; it is the mark of antichrist, to attempt anything of the kind; who, in so doing, usurps the divine prerogative, places himself in his seat, and shows himself as if he was God: but this is to be understood only in a doctrinal, or ministerial way, by preaching the full and free remission of sins, through the blood of Christ, according to the riches of God's grace, to such as repent of their sins, and believe in Christ; declaring, that all such persons as do so repent and believe, all their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake: and accordingly,

              they are remitted unto them;

              in agreement with Christ's own words, in his declaration and commission to his disciples; see ( Mark 16:16 ) ( Luke 24:47 ) . On the other hand he signifies, that

              whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained:

              that is, that whatsoever sins ye declare are not forgiven, they are not forgiven; which is the case of all final unbelievers, and impenitent sinners; who dying without repentance towards God, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, according to the Gospel declaration, shall be damned, and are damned; for God stands by, and will stand by and confirm the Gospel of his Son, faithfully preached by his ministering servants; and all the world will sooner or later be convinced of the validity, truth, and certainty, of the declarations on each of these heads, made by them.

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              • #8
                What exactly is the key to heaven? My money says it is the Gospel.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  What exactly is the key to heaven? My money says it is the Gospel.
                  Well, it's keys, plural, though, right? The Gospel is indeed the key to heaven, yet it seems the context of the one of the verses of binding and loosing, have to do with forgiveness of sins.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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                  • #10
                    Surely one endowed with the Holy Spirit is enabled to forgive and retain. Can we not differentiate between sincere repentance and stubborn rebellion? What does this mean: Have I not said you are gods... to whom the Word of God comes? Will we not judge even Angels?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      Well, it's keys, plural, though, right? The Gospel is indeed the key to heaven, yet it seems the context of the one of the verses of binding and loosing, have to do with forgiveness of sins.

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      FWIW, here are Keener's comments from his IVP Bible Background Commentary:
                      16:19. The keeper of the keys was one of the most important roles a household servant could hold (cf. Mk 13:32–34); a high official held the keys in a royal kingdom (Is 22:20–22) and in God’s house, the temple. Keys here refer to the authority to admit into the kingdom (Mt 23:13), based on the knowledge of the truth about Jesus (16:16). The Qumran community also had officials deciding whether to admit members; the decision was made based on the prospective member’s acceptance of the community’s rule of life.

                      Many Jews felt that the Jewish high court acted on the authority of God’s tribunal in heaven, in a sense ratifying its decrees. “Binding” and “loosing” (also 18:18) were terms regularly used for rabbis’ legislative authority in interpreting Scripture (“prohibiting” and “permitting”), and thus could apply to judicial situations as well.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                        John 20: 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 After saying this, He breathed on them and said,[d] “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

                        Surely these Scriptures do not mean we can forgive and retain the sins of others. After all, we are all sinners.

                        Thank you.
                        That what Jesus does in His own Person for the paralytic in St Mark 2.1-12 and parallel passages - the story appears in all 3 Synoptics, though not in St John - He will do through them by the gift of His Spirit. It may be, that the Johannine passage is the theological equivalent, in St John, of the passages in the Synoptics.

                        What you exclude as the possible meaning, seems to me to be exactly what St John 20.21-23 means. Jesus forgave sins in Person on Earth; now that He is glorified & His Spirit has been sent, He forgives sins through His Disciples. Then, and now. If Christians can work miracles like Christ’s even now, and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom now, why is it out of the question that they can forgive sins now ? All three activities are proper to Christ alone: yet no Protestant denounces as wrong the practice among Protestants of preaching the Gospel. That kind of objection is reserved for the action of forgiving sins: not for preaching His Gospel, nor always - though there are different schools of thought among Protestants upon this last matter - for the working of miracles like His.

                        Gill’s position as quoted above is a familiar one. ISTM that his words ignore what the 4 Gospel passages, laid side by side, seem to be saying. Christ can, surely, communicate to men the grace to do whatever Divine Work He sees fit. A God who can “overshadow” an insignificant Jewish girl so that she becomes the mother of the Divine Messiah, can surely empower sinners to forgive sins in His Name.

                        The verb *aphiēmi* is used in St John, and in the 3 Synoptic passages. There is no linguistic hint that what Jesus authorises the Disciples in St John 20 to do, is any different from what He did for the paralysed man in the Synoptic passages. If the verb *aphiēmi* refers to the remission or forgiveness of sins when it appears in the Synoptic passages, what is the linguistic, contextual, hermeneutic, theological or other justification for having it not mean the remission or forgiveness of sins when it appears in St John 20 ?

                        That we are sinners is true - and irrelevant. What matters, is whether or not God uses human beings to do His Works. Scripture shows that He does. The Gospel of the Kingdom preached by Christ is the same Gospel when preached through an NT Apostle, or through a Christian pastor of later times. Apostles in the NT, and later Christians, are alike in being members of Christ: so what He preaches through their preaching of His Gospel, is His preaching of which they are the instruments. If the fact of human sinfulness means a Catholic or Orthodox priest can’t forgive sins, it also, by parity of reasoning, must mean that Billy Graham, John Wesley, St Augustine of Hippo & St Peter the Apostle could not preach the Gospel. The human failings and sinfulness of Apostles, Church Fathers, Mediaevals, Reformers, Puritans, Evangelicals, and the rest, are not the source of the preaching or of the forgiving: Christ is the Source of both, through the grace of His Spirit.

                        Humanly speaking, no-one can preach, work miracles, or forgive sins. But if God empowers them to do so, then they can. None of these things is beyond the Grace of Christ to enable men to do - the question is never, “Has He power to enable men to do these things ?”, but rather, “Has He in reality empowered men to do these things ?” Grace is always His Grace - the source of it is never, never man or any other creature. And if it is His Will to work through feeble instruments (which are the only ones God works through, since no creature is anything in comparison with God), then that is how things are. That Christ forgives through the instrumentality of feeble men, STM as securely witnessed to by Scripture as any less contentious but commonly received doctrine.

                        ISTM that believing that the Disciples were authorised to forgive sins is hard to swallow for many Protestants for two reasons at least:

                        1. Claims to forgive sins are associated with Catholic priests, not (usually) with Protestant practice or belief; and that in turn is problematic for all sorts of historical & cultural reasons.

                        2. Unwillingness to attribute a work proper to Christ, to sinful men, even as His instruments, may be operative too. And amicable discussion between Catholics and Protestants of the nuts & bolts of their respective doctrines has not hitherto been frequent or widely possible.

                        If people, as a matter of everyday experience, forgive one another - why can Christians not be forgiving sins, with Christ as their Example & the Source of their power to do so ? I’m surprised that Protestants do not hold that *all* Christians are authorised to forgive sins. I am not aware of that as a Protestant doctrine: a far more usual objection is, that Catholic priests, because (unlike Christ) they are sinners, cannot forgive sins. Since Protestantism takes the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers with great seriousness, the (seemingly unheld) doctrine would seem to make a lot of sense.
                        Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 11-13-2018, 08:37 PM.

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