Originally posted by carpedm9587
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostActually - I have. But check your local U.S. Muslims and ask them what they think. You might be surprised.
If you don't think Muslims gaining a majority could change things for the worse in the USA, then you haven't been paying attention to places like Dearborn Michigan. Christians being arrested even when they were following the laws of the area for spreading the Gospel.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPlease send it all to me, and I will proudly carry it around.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostSo to understand the teachings of Christianity you would just trust the average "Joe Christian" on the street? That may be good enough for you, but I prefer to go to the source.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostThe outward sayings of Muslims don't seem to apply when Muslims gain power. The actual teachings of the Quran and Hadith aren't something the average Muslim can change. Then there is the issue of taqqiya.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostIf you don't think Muslims gaining a majority could change things for the worse in the USA, then you haven't been paying attention to places like Dearborn Michigan. Christians being arrested even when they were following the laws of the area for spreading the Gospel.
People being arrested on false grounds is not new. And the system appears to have worked exactly as it was supposed to.
Cerebrum - that you have an anti-Muslim perspective is evident. I don't share it - and I don't find it becoming. I also don't find it based on anything remotely accurate.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOutside of context - of course. The countries you are talking about weren't "taken over" by Muslims
- Muslims have pretty much always been a majority force - and the countries have had a strong lean towards theocracy. The notion that this would befall a country that has long valued religious liberty is borderline ludicrous. As I said - if we have survived decades (centuries?) of Christians wanting to make this a "Christian nation," we would survive Islam as well.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou can't possibly be that ignorant of history, carpe.
But this isn't the 7th-15th centuries. There are seven theocracies in the world today (AFAICT): Afghanistan, the Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, and Vatican City. Six are Muslim - and all six have been predominantly Muslim (though not always theocracies) for several centuries. One is under the control of a monarchy (Saudi Arabia). Afghanistan has been a battleground for political control since time immemorial. All of them are in or just around the middle east.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostAs cerebrum has said - your ignorance of Islam is showing. If the United States became a Muslim majority state, its values would necessarily change significantly in that process. That you seem to think otherwise is beyond ludicrous.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI'm sure you would...but then again.... THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have a feeling we're not talking about the same things. Are you referring to Muslim expansion in the 7th century? If so, you might want to take a moment and compare it to what happened to the Aztecs, Incas, and the Christianization of Europe in the 7th-15th centuries. I'm not seeing anything that other religions have done over time.
But this isn't the 7th-15th centuries. There are seven theocracies in the world today (AFAICT): Afghanistan, the Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, and Vatican City. Six are Muslim - and all six have been predominantly Muslim (though not always theocracies) for several centuries. One is under the control of a monarchy (Saudi Arabia). Afghanistan has been a battleground for political control since time immemorial. All of them are in or just around the middle east.
Your opinion is duly noted. Don't look now, but your anti-Muslim sentiment is showing.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAnd none of them have the U.S. constitution or safeguards.
Christians have been insisting this is a "Christian country" for decades - maybe centuries - but our protections remain in place. They will survive a Muslim majority as well.
And a constitution and a government could be overthrown here just like it has been in every other country that Muslim's took over.
If there is ever a theocracy in the USA, it would be Muslim, not Christian. Even when 90+% of the USA was Christian we didn't have anything close to a theocracy.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostRead OBP's post.
And a constitution and a government could be overthrown here just like it has been in every other country that Muslim's took over.
If there is ever a theocracy in the USA, it would be Muslim, not Christian. Even when 90+% of the USA was Christian we didn't have anything close to a theocracy.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostRead OBP's post.
And a constitution and a government could be overthrown here just like it has been in every other country that Muslim's took over.
If there is ever a theocracy in the USA, it would be Muslim, not Christian. Even when 90+% of the USA was Christian we didn't have anything close to a theocracy.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSays the anti-athiest bigot, hypocrite and supporter of Trump, the treasonous underminer of our democracy.
And it's not ME who's going to the 'atheists R us' website to harass atheists --- it's you who comes here to poop!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI actually said or suggested nothing of the kind...
Actually, it's Taqiya or Taqiyya. This practice, in Islamic law, is only permitted in the face of persecution, compulsion, or imminent harm. Although the anti-Islamic sentiment has become significant, most Muslims I know would never consider engaging in this - and laugh when I suggest it. The general response is "this is still the U.S. - we're nowhere near that point."
It's allowed in far more than just "persecution, compulsion, or imminent harm". Mohammed allowed it in the case of murdering a man who opposed Mohammed and not only allowed it, but endorsed such activity. Since he is the ultimate standard as far as what a "good Muslim" is supposed to be, then it's pretty important.
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do".
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:271
Lying* for the sake of a good outcome is also allowed according to Hadith.
He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.
Sahih Bukhari 3:49:857
Remember, the Quranic verse that is often used to justify it only in "persecution" says to not even be friendsPerhaps you have not followed the case as well as you should. The arrests were not made by Muslims, but by the city police for "breach of peace." Since then, the two involved were unanimously acquitted by a jury of their peers (just the way it's supposed to work) and the city issued a public apology. You are also talking about an 8-year-old event.
People being arrested on false grounds is not new. And the system appears to have worked exactly as it was supposed to.dummiesDhimmies.
If you really think it would have been different if Muslims were the majority in the USA, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Cerebrum - that you have an anti-Muslim perspective is evident. I don't share it - and I don't find it becoming. I also don't find it based on anything remotely accurate.
*In another version it says a rationalizes things by saying that type of lie isn't really a lie.
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