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What the "Others" Want

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  • What the "Others" Want

    Based on an exchange with Sparko, I'm opening this thread for a discussion on what people from both ends of the political spectrum (and the middle as well) really want. It is my belief that there is more common ground than differences - if we could escape the caricatures that have been created by the left/right wing media. So maybe we can make an effort to that end here.

    So - I'm happy to open the discussion: I would probably describe myself as a fairly strong social liberal, and a strong-to-moderate fiscal conservative. I cannot claim to speak for anyone but myself. Some of the policies I support are aligned with Trump's policies (not that many - but there are some), and some with Bernie Sanders.

    Personally, I am most interested in hearing from the more conservative side of the aisle. So my question is fairly simple: what do you want?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    An accelerated change towards carbon-neutral energy sources, whether renewables or nuclear power. I'd consider that my number one issue now adays.

    An end to abortion goes without saying as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Term limits.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        So my question is fairly simple: what do you want?
        1. Restore democracy:
        a) Money out of politics: Get rid of the corruption and lobbyists
        b) Change to a Ranked Choice Voting or similar system that gets past the 2-party system and ends the 2-party deadlock
        c) Restore the Voting Rights act, and guarantee to all the federal right to vote. Ideally voting should be compulsory.
        d) Paper ballots, not dodgy voting machines
        2. End the wars
        3. End homelessness. Provide basic rent-free housing to the homeless.
        4. Healthcare for all. Extending the popular medicare system to cover everyone seems the simplest way to go.
        5. End tax evasion & dodging. Actually make the rich pay their taxes.
        6. Give US workers the same basic rights workers in the rest of the Western world has: Paid vacation time, sick leave, childcare, family leave, decent minimum wage etc.
        7. Stop dismantling unions, and instead strengthen them.
        8. Common sense gun legislation
        9. End private prisons, and reduce prison sentences so they aren't ridiculously excessive and so the US doesn't have ~10x the prison population per capita of other developed countries.
        10. Lead the world in addressing climate change

        I have others, but I guess those are my top-10, in no particular order.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          An accelerated change towards carbon-neutral energy sources, whether renewables or nuclear power. I'd consider that my number one issue now a days.
          We are aligned on this.

          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          An end to abortion goes without saying as well.
          And we are aligned on this as well.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Term limits.
            Absolutely!
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Term limits.
              That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?

              For the unelected SCOTUS, I'm with you on term limits. I'm skeptical about the value of term limits for elected positions. If term limits are needed for elected positions it's probably a sign that the democracy itself isn't functioning properly and it should be addressed at the source by fixing the democratic process rather than have the very awkward adjustment of term limits being introduced.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?
                Gee, did I misread the question?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  1. Restore democracy:
                  So how do you see it as having been compromised?

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  a) Money out of politics: Get rid of the corruption and lobbyists
                  b) Change to a Ranked Choice Voting or similar system that gets past the 2-party system and ends the 2-party deadlock
                  Agreed to both

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  c) Restore the Voting Rights act, and guarantee to all the federal right to vote. Ideally voting should be compulsory.
                  I don't know enough here to have an opinion, and I have to admit I am dubious about the latter part.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  d) Paper ballots, not dodgy voting machines
                  I would advocate for electronic voting with a paper back-up. Indeed, if each voter was emailed their ballot as well as given a paper copy of how they voted, it might go a long way to curtailing hacking (or at least providing a means for verifying).

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  2. End the wars
                  Wouldn't that be nice. I'd like to end all crime too. I'm not sure how practical that is.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  3. End homelessness. Provide basic rent-free housing to the homeless.
                  The former, yes. The latter - maybe. I'd like to see it with some requirements for those who are able to get free of the subsidy and become self-sufficient.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  4. Healthcare for all. Extending the popular medicare system to cover everyone seems the simplest way to go.
                  On this we agree - I am in favor of a single payer system.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  5. End tax evasion & dodging. Actually make the rich pay their taxes.
                  I would advocate for giving the IRS the resources it needs to follow through on audits - but I think the best favor we could do ourselves is a simple, flat tax systems with a high "cost of living" deduction that is the same for all (perhaps factoring in local cost-of-living values) and no exemptions.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  6. Give US workers the same basic rights workers in the rest of the Western world has: Paid vacation time, sick leave, childcare, family leave, decent minimum wage etc.
                  Here too - I am in favor, but how we get there needs to be managed so as to not put businesses out of business - especially small employers.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  7. Stop dismantling unions, and instead strengthen them.
                  We may part company here. I have no problem with unions, but I think they should be comprised of those who want to band together, and not be forced on those who do not want to participate. At the same time, unions should speak for their members, and the benefits they negotiate should not extend to those who decide to exclude themselves. That gives unions the best motivation to act in the best interests of their constituents, so as to attract more constituents.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  8. Common sense gun legislation
                  I want an end to the carnage. Any (moral/legal) means that can reasonably provide that ends, I'm in support.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  9. End private prisons, and reduce prison sentences so they aren't ridiculously excessive and so the US doesn't have ~10x the prison population per capita of other developed countries.
                  I agree that private prisons are a bad idea. I also think we need to stop criminalizing addiction.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  10. Lead the world in addressing climate change
                  I (arrogantly?) think we could/should be leading the world in a lot of things. Climate change is certainly one of them. But we're going to have to raise our game more than a little bit.

                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  I have others, but I guess those are my top-10, in no particular order.
                  Thanks!
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?

                    For the unelected SCOTUS, I'm with you on term limits. I'm skeptical about the value of term limits for elected positions. If term limits are needed for elected positions it's probably a sign that the democracy itself isn't functioning properly and it should be addressed at the source by fixing the democratic process rather than have the very awkward adjustment of term limits being introduced.
                    Oh I think I'm with CP on this one. Consider the house of representatives. The average term for the existing representatives is 9.1 years. If a 10 year term limit was imposed, it would provide for adequate "institutional memory" while strongly encouraging new blood. The senate is at 10.2 years, so a two-term limit would limit Senators to two terms, also provide for institutional memory, and provide for new blood. I also think the judiciary should be subject to appointment term limits, including SCOTUS. Indeed, if SCOTUS had an 18-year term limit, and justices were spaced out, it would give every president two appointments. Any death on the court would automatically be one of those appointments and would result in a slightly longer term. I think our government needs a regular infusion of new blood.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You pretty much have to be a millionaire just to buy the office, and you have a pretty good chance of coming out a multi-millionaire. It just stinks, and we no longer have "citizen legislators".
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Gee, did I misread the question?
                        he had to do a mail-in ballot

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          You pretty much have to be a millionaire just to buy the office, and you have a pretty good chance of coming out a multi-millionaire. It just stinks, and we no longer have "citizen legislators".
                          Well - you don't have to be a millionaire - there are many examples of people who get going with groundswell support. But they can be quickly buried if someone is either a m/billionaire, or get the attention of one. Personally, I think big money has to come out of politics. Everyone should either be funded from a public pool, or all individuals and businesses should be limited to the same (small) donation amount for any given candidate. Then, if you want to show you have what it takes, show you can attract those donations to your campaign.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            1. Restore democracy:
                            a) Money out of politics: Get rid of the corruption and lobbyists
                            b) Change to a Ranked Choice Voting or similar system that gets past the 2-party system and ends the 2-party deadlock
                            c) Restore the Voting Rights act, and guarantee to all the federal right to vote. Ideally voting should be compulsory.
                            d) Paper ballots, not dodgy voting machines
                            2. End the wars
                            3. End homelessness. Provide basic rent-free housing to the homeless.
                            4. Healthcare for all. Extending the popular medicare system to cover everyone seems the simplest way to go.
                            5. End tax evasion & dodging. Actually make the rich pay their taxes.
                            6. Give US workers the same basic rights workers in the rest of the Western world has: Paid vacation time, sick leave, childcare, family leave, decent minimum wage etc.
                            7. Stop dismantling unions, and instead strengthen them.
                            8. Common sense gun legislation
                            9. End private prisons, and reduce prison sentences so they aren't ridiculously excessive and so the US doesn't have ~10x the prison population per capita of other developed countries.
                            10. Lead the world in addressing climate change

                            I have others, but I guess those are my top-10, in no particular order.
                            Getting big money out of politics is a great idea. How would you accomplish this?
                            I would love to see some sort of ranked voting system. That would go a long way toward weakening the party system - eliminating the party system would be best.
                            No on compulsory voting.
                            Yes on paper ballots and double counting by unaligned counting groups - done publicly if possible.
                            Ending war is a pipe dream, everyone would like wars gone but . . .
                            The whole legal system needs reform but that is not a simple matter. Focus should be on "truth" rather than nit picking.

                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            . . . I'm skeptical about the value of term limits for elected positions. If term limits are needed for elected positions it's probably a sign that the democracy itself isn't functioning properly and it should be addressed at the source by fixing the democratic process.
                            Yeah.

                            I am agreeing altogether too much with you Star. Surprise.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              An end to abortion goes without saying as well.
                              Absolutely.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment

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