Page 1 of 16 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 158

Thread: What the "Others" Want

  1. #1
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,580
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    896

    What the "Others" Want

    Based on an exchange with Sparko, I'm opening this thread for a discussion on what people from both ends of the political spectrum (and the middle as well) really want. It is my belief that there is more common ground than differences - if we could escape the caricatures that have been created by the left/right wing media. So maybe we can make an effort to that end here.

    So - I'm happy to open the discussion: I would probably describe myself as a fairly strong social liberal, and a strong-to-moderate fiscal conservative. I cannot claim to speak for anyone but myself. Some of the policies I support are aligned with Trump's policies (not that many - but there are some), and some with Bernie Sanders.

    Personally, I am most interested in hearing from the more conservative side of the aisle. So my question is fairly simple: what do you want?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  2. #2
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Denmark - Jutland
    Faith
    Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,966
    Amen (Given)
    903
    Amen (Received)
    2702
    An accelerated change towards carbon-neutral energy sources, whether renewables or nuclear power. I'd consider that my number one issue now adays.

    An end to abortion goes without saying as well.

  3. #3
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    44,452
    Amen (Given)
    9573
    Amen (Received)
    21731
    Term limits.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  4. Amen Jedidiah, Mountain Man, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  5. #4
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New Zealand
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,943
    Amen (Given)
    2591
    Amen (Received)
    1563
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So my question is fairly simple: what do you want?
    1. Restore democracy:
    a) Money out of politics: Get rid of the corruption and lobbyists
    b) Change to a Ranked Choice Voting or similar system that gets past the 2-party system and ends the 2-party deadlock
    c) Restore the Voting Rights act, and guarantee to all the federal right to vote. Ideally voting should be compulsory.
    d) Paper ballots, not dodgy voting machines
    2. End the wars
    3. End homelessness. Provide basic rent-free housing to the homeless.
    4. Healthcare for all. Extending the popular medicare system to cover everyone seems the simplest way to go.
    5. End tax evasion & dodging. Actually make the rich pay their taxes.
    6. Give US workers the same basic rights workers in the rest of the Western world has: Paid vacation time, sick leave, childcare, family leave, decent minimum wage etc.
    7. Stop dismantling unions, and instead strengthen them.
    8. Common sense gun legislation
    9. End private prisons, and reduce prison sentences so they aren't ridiculously excessive and so the US doesn't have ~10x the prison population per capita of other developed countries.
    10. Lead the world in addressing climate change

    I have others, but I guess those are my top-10, in no particular order.

  6. #5
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,580
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    An accelerated change towards carbon-neutral energy sources, whether renewables or nuclear power. I'd consider that my number one issue now a days.
    We are aligned on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    An end to abortion goes without saying as well.
    And we are aligned on this as well.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  7. #6
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,580
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Term limits.
    Absolutely!
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  8. #7
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New Zealand
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,943
    Amen (Given)
    2591
    Amen (Received)
    1563
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Term limits.
    That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?

    For the unelected SCOTUS, I'm with you on term limits. I'm skeptical about the value of term limits for elected positions. If term limits are needed for elected positions it's probably a sign that the democracy itself isn't functioning properly and it should be addressed at the source by fixing the democratic process rather than have the very awkward adjustment of term limits being introduced.

  9. #8
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    44,452
    Amen (Given)
    9573
    Amen (Received)
    21731
    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?
    Gee, did I misread the question?

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  10. #9
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,580
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    1. Restore democracy:
    So how do you see it as having been compromised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    a) Money out of politics: Get rid of the corruption and lobbyists
    b) Change to a Ranked Choice Voting or similar system that gets past the 2-party system and ends the 2-party deadlock
    Agreed to both

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    c) Restore the Voting Rights act, and guarantee to all the federal right to vote. Ideally voting should be compulsory.
    I don't know enough here to have an opinion, and I have to admit I am dubious about the latter part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    d) Paper ballots, not dodgy voting machines
    I would advocate for electronic voting with a paper back-up. Indeed, if each voter was emailed their ballot as well as given a paper copy of how they voted, it might go a long way to curtailing hacking (or at least providing a means for verifying).

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    2. End the wars
    Wouldn't that be nice. I'd like to end all crime too. I'm not sure how practical that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    3. End homelessness. Provide basic rent-free housing to the homeless.
    The former, yes. The latter - maybe. I'd like to see it with some requirements for those who are able to get free of the subsidy and become self-sufficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    4. Healthcare for all. Extending the popular medicare system to cover everyone seems the simplest way to go.
    On this we agree - I am in favor of a single payer system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    5. End tax evasion & dodging. Actually make the rich pay their taxes.
    I would advocate for giving the IRS the resources it needs to follow through on audits - but I think the best favor we could do ourselves is a simple, flat tax systems with a high "cost of living" deduction that is the same for all (perhaps factoring in local cost-of-living values) and no exemptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    6. Give US workers the same basic rights workers in the rest of the Western world has: Paid vacation time, sick leave, childcare, family leave, decent minimum wage etc.
    Here too - I am in favor, but how we get there needs to be managed so as to not put businesses out of business - especially small employers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    7. Stop dismantling unions, and instead strengthen them.
    We may part company here. I have no problem with unions, but I think they should be comprised of those who want to band together, and not be forced on those who do not want to participate. At the same time, unions should speak for their members, and the benefits they negotiate should not extend to those who decide to exclude themselves. That gives unions the best motivation to act in the best interests of their constituents, so as to attract more constituents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    8. Common sense gun legislation
    I want an end to the carnage. Any (moral/legal) means that can reasonably provide that ends, I'm in support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    9. End private prisons, and reduce prison sentences so they aren't ridiculously excessive and so the US doesn't have ~10x the prison population per capita of other developed countries.
    I agree that private prisons are a bad idea. I also think we need to stop criminalizing addiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    10. Lead the world in addressing climate change
    I (arrogantly?) think we could/should be leading the world in a lot of things. Climate change is certainly one of them. But we're going to have to raise our game more than a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I have others, but I guess those are my top-10, in no particular order.
    Thanks!
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  11. #10
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,580
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    That's really your single biggest political desire for the US?

    For the unelected SCOTUS, I'm with you on term limits. I'm skeptical about the value of term limits for elected positions. If term limits are needed for elected positions it's probably a sign that the democracy itself isn't functioning properly and it should be addressed at the source by fixing the democratic process rather than have the very awkward adjustment of term limits being introduced.
    Oh I think I'm with CP on this one. Consider the house of representatives. The average term for the existing representatives is 9.1 years. If a 10 year term limit was imposed, it would provide for adequate "institutional memory" while strongly encouraging new blood. The senate is at 10.2 years, so a two-term limit would limit Senators to two terms, also provide for institutional memory, and provide for new blood. I also think the judiciary should be subject to appointment term limits, including SCOTUS. Indeed, if SCOTUS had an 18-year term limit, and justices were spaced out, it would give every president two appointments. Any death on the court would automatically be one of those appointments and would result in a slightly longer term. I think our government needs a regular infusion of new blood.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •