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12 Killed Many Wounded At Country Bar

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Sure, but that doesn't apply (in Texas, at least) to off-duty officers.
    If you'd read the article I linked, we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #47
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      If you'd read the article I linked, we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.
      I went to the link, Mr. SmartyPants, and it was a bunch of other links.

      link.jpg

      And you mentioned two different groups --- concealed carry persons and off-duty law enforcement.
      Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-12-2018, 12:45 PM.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I went to the link, and it was a bunch of other links. And you mentioned two different groups --- concealed carry persons and off-duty law enforcement.
        Try the link again.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Try the link again.
          Tried again....

          link.jpg
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Tried again....

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]32958[/ATTACH]
            The link in MY post, not your reply to it?
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              The link in MY post, not your reply to it?
              Thank you.

              But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

              California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.


              Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Thank you.

                But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

                California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.


                Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?
                Source: linked quote from USA Today in article

                the constant chatter – besides general expressions of hatred for the shooter – was about the six unarmed, off-duty law enforcement officers who were reportedly at the bar during the shooting. Their lack of weapons was a presumed consequence of a California law barring firearms in bars.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #53
                  OK, from the COMMENTS....

                  “At least six unarmed off-duty police officers, moonlighting as security guards Wednesday night, were at the bar. A parent told Dean that at least one of the guards “stood in front of my daughter” to protect her from bullets.”


                  I think that might answer my question -- the fact that they were "moonlighting as security guards" may have required them (by house rules) to be unarmed, whereas if they were off-duty officers who happened to be in the bar, they would not necessarily have had to be unarmed.



                  I think that's the key distinction - if, in fact, they were operating as employees of the bar at the time.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    (just bumping this in case you missed the cross-post)
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Source: linked quote from USA Today in article

                      the constant chatter – besides general expressions of hatred for the shooter – was about the six unarmed, off-duty law enforcement officers who were reportedly at the bar during the shooting. Their lack of weapons was a presumed consequence of a California law barring firearms in bars.

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      Yeah, I'm looking for actual fact, instead of "presumption".

                      Seriously, I'm curious if "California law" actually prohibits commissioned law enforcement from having weapons (off-duty, even) in bars, or if that was a condition of their employment as 'security' for the bar. Still looking.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Seriously, I'm curious if "California law" actually prohibits commissioned law enforcement from having weapons (off-duty, even) in bars, or if that was a condition of their employment as 'security' for the bar. Still looking.
                        The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a federal law enacted in 2004 that overrides local laws pertaining to law enforcement officers. There are exceptions, however, and I was trying to find California qualified...

                        leosa.jpg

                        Still looking. (Because I'm genuinely curious - not that it matters to anybody else)
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Thank you.

                          But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

                          California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.


                          Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?
                          regardless, if it was a bar, you said they can't carry if they are consuming alcohol, so since that is the primary reason to be in a bar, they were not carrying, even if it were allowed at other places/times.

                          ETA just saw the post about them being security guards. so ignore my post.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            regardless, if it was a bar, you said they can't carry if they are consuming alcohol, so since that is the primary reason to be in a bar, they were not carrying, even if it were allowed at other places/times.
                            Actually, some friends I know go with other friends as the designated driver, which means they're not consuming alcohol, they're playing pool and darts.

                            ETA just saw the post about them being security guards. so ignore my post.
                            Your post is hereby ignored.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              If you are an off duty officer working security, and can't carry (for what ever rule/reason) why wouldn't you at least were a Kevlar vest?
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                                If you are an off duty officer working security, and can't carry (for what ever rule/reason) why wouldn't you at least were a Kevlar vest?
                                You don't expect to be shot at. Security in a bar usually means being a bouncer and breaking up drunken fights. Vests are heavy, hot and uncomfortable.

                                But my question is why would a bar need 6 off duty police to work security? Either it is a very large bar, or very dangerous.

                                Comment

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