12 Killed Many Wounded At Country Bar

[lilpixieofterror]

Just like with automobile air bags, the proof comes in looking at how much violence exists in countries that are more restrictive of gun ownership.

The US has the most lax gun laws overall and some of the worst gun violence. It is sad but true. Guns are inherently dangerous things and require responsibility and integrity to be properly managed. I grew up around guns and almost found myself in a situation where lax management of a loaded gun could have ended up in a tragedy. Had I not been educated that one always treats a gun as loaded it almost certainly would have. I enjoy shooting, but I am not against responsible laws restricting the ownership and availability of guns. How many more mass shootings will it take for those opposed to responsible gun laws and enforcement strategies to realize that we can't continue as we are?

We are hearing about shootings like this over and over again! It has to stop. There are a lot of contributing factors. Our society as a whole has some real problems. But the general availability, and the lack of proper controls, especially at gun shows, is a significant part of the problem.



Jim

These things were already done and failed to prevent this tragedy.

[firstfloor]

Killed: 12
Lessons learned: 0, as usual.
The next mass shooting will be along shortly.

[Sparko]

Just like with automobile air bags, the proof comes in looking at how much violence exists in countries that are more restrictive of gun ownership.

The US has the most lax gun laws overall and some of the worst gun violence. It is sad but true. Guns are inherently dangerous things and require responsibility and integrity to be properly managed. I grew up around guns and almost found myself in a situation where lax management of a loaded gun could have ended up in a tragedy. Had I not been educated that one always treats a gun as loaded it almost certainly would have. I enjoy shooting, but I am not against responsible laws restricting the ownership and availability of guns. How many more mass shootings will it take for those opposed to responsible gun laws and enforcement strategies to realize that we can't continue as we are?

We are hearing about shootings like this over and over again! It has to stop. There are a lot of contributing factors. Our society as a whole has some real problems. But the general availability, and the lack of proper controls, especially at gun shows, is a significant part of the problem.



Jim

Jim, again, there will be nuts everywhere. And evil people. Take away the guns and they will use something else. Look at Britain. They did a pretty good job of eliminating guns and now they have a knife problem. And people running down people in the street with vans. And bombs.



I would rather know that there are more people carrying guns legally in public than not. If a criminal knew there was a good chance that if he drew a gun to commit a robbery or a mass shooting, a dozen bystanders would gun him down in a second, he probably wouldn't have the courage to even attempt it.

Not to mention we have the 2nd amendment which prevents the government from taking our guns away. And I think that is a good thing.

[guacamole]

Who wanted this world? Firearms were much easier to get when I was a kid and we did not have these problems (generally).

It's not an anti-gun statement; it's simply an observation of cause and effect. If you have guns that are easy to obtain, then you will tend to have these kinds of crimes. We wanted a world with more liberal gun rights and we got it. This is what it looks like.

I don't think there's anything we can do about it at this point.

[Sparko]

It's not an anti-gun statement; it's simply an observation of cause and effect. If you have guns that are easy to obtain, then you will tend to have these kinds of crimes. We wanted a world with more liberal gun rights and we got it. This is what it looks like.

I don't think there's anything we can do about it at this point.

Then why didn't we have more of these crimes back when guns were easier to obtain? We don't have more liberal gun rights today, we have less. What have you been smoking Guac?

[guacamole]

Then why didn't we have more of these crimes back when guns were easier to obtain?

There could be a number of reasons that we aren't qualified to discuss: our saturation in media violence, an online culture that leads to one embracing an extremism that sees others as less than human, a withdrawal from previous standards of decency and respect, an increase in urban poverty, etc. We can and should decry all of those; however, all of it's besides the point if the observation is one of cause and effect: whatever else is going on, we've created this world for ourselves with our decisions. A part of that is easy gun ownership.

We don't have more liberal gun rights today, we have less. What have you been smoking Guac?

It's a relative statement; more liberal compared to other countries that have seen fit to control personal firearm ownership.

[Sparko]

There could be a number of reasons that we aren't qualified to discuss: our saturation in media violence, an online culture that leads to one embracing an extremism that sees others as less than human, a withdrawal from previous standards of decency and respect, an increase in urban poverty, etc. We can and should decry all of those; however, all of it's besides the point if the observation is one of cause and effect: whatever else is going on, we've created this world for ourselves with our decisions. A part of that is easy gun ownership.



It's a relative statement; more liberal compared to other countries that have seen fit to control personal firearm ownership.

Sorry but the sense of your initial statement in response to Seer was clear: You claimed we have more liberal gun control laws now than we did in the past, when the exact opposite is true. In addition, you claimed that if we have guns that are easier to obtain we have more of these types of crimes, when again, the exact opposite it true. We had easier to obtain guns in the past and less of these crimes.

[guacamole]

Sorry but the sense of your initial statement in response to Seer was clear: You claimed we have more liberal gun control laws now than we did in the past, when the exact opposite is true.

Have you joined the endless ranks of tweb mind readers? I know what I mean, and I wrote what I meant. Don't expand my words to fit your misreading of it.

In addition, you claimed that if we have guns that are easier to obtain we have more of these types of crimes, when again, the exact opposite it true. We had easier to obtain guns in the past and less of these crimes.

It seems pointlessly obvious to have to say it, but we don't live in the past. Times change. It is a comparative statement between the US and the countries with more strict gun laws that do not suffer in the same way we suffer.

[Sparko]

Have you joined the endless ranks of tweb mind readers? I know what I mean, and I wrote what I meant. Don't expand my words to fit your misreading of it.

no mind reading involved. Just context and reading what you and Seer wrote...

Who wanted this world? Firearms were much easier to get when I was a kid and we did not have these problems (generally).

It's not an anti-gun statement; it's simply an observation of cause and effect. If you have guns that are easy to obtain, then you will tend to have these kinds of crimes. We wanted a world with more liberal gun rights and we got it. This is what it looks like.

I don't think there's anything we can do about it at this point.

1. Seer talks about how much easier guns were to get when he was a kid and there were none of these problems.
2. You respond to his post and say "we wanted a world with more liberal gun rights and we got it" and also made the comment that if guns are easier to obtain we have more of these crimes.

The exact opposite is true. Guns are not easier to obtain and we had less crime when they were easier to obtain.

[guacamole]

no mind reading involved. Just context and reading what you and Seer wrote...



1. Seer talks about how much easier guns were to get when he was a kid and there were none of these problems.
2. You respond to his post and say "we wanted a world with more liberal gun rights and we got it" and also made the comment that if guns are easier to obtain we have more of these crimes.

The exact opposite is true. Guns are not easier to obtain and we had less crime when they were easier to obtain.

There's no point to having a discussion if you're going to tell me what I meant. At best it's a strawman, and I don't see a point in trying to defend something I wasn't trying to say.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Sparko]

There's no point to having a discussion if you're going to tell me what I meant. At best it's a strawman, and I don't see a point in trying to defend something I wasn't trying to say.

fwiw,
guacamole

Or you could just admit you mispoke and were wrong instead of pretending to have meant something you clearly did not say.

fwiw
Sparko

[One Bad Pig]

Then why didn't we have more of these crimes back when guns were easier to obtain? We don't have more liberal gun rights today, we have less. What have you been smoking Guac?

Here's a salient statistic: 98% of mass shootings in the US since 1950 (including this one) have occurred in gun-free zones. The linked article also notes that concealed carriers are often instrumental in stopping things like this - those obviously in uniform/carrying are going to be targeted by a shooter first. There were six off-duty law enforcement officers in the club at the time of the shooting, but they could do nothing because they were unarmed.

[Cow Poke]

Here's a salient statistic: 98% of mass shootings in the US since 1950 (including this one) have occurred in gun-free zones. The linked article also notes that concealed carriers are often instrumental in stopping things like this - those obviously in uniform/carrying are going to be targeted by a shooter first. There were six off-duty law enforcement officers in the club at the time of the shooting, but they could do nothing because they were unarmed.

Off-duty officers unarmed? Because of the rules of the club? I know this is a sticky one, but when I was po-po many years ago, I was required to be armed 24 hours a day when in public, except if I were going to be consuming alcohol.

[One Bad Pig]

Off-duty officers unarmed? Because of the rules of the club? I know this is a sticky one, but when I was po-po many years ago, I was required to be armed 24 hours a day when in public, except if I were going to be consuming alcohol.

The concealed carry permit does not allow carrying in places which principally serve alcohol.

[Cow Poke]

The concealed carry permit does not allow carrying in places which principally serve alcohol.

Sure, but that doesn't apply (in Texas, at least) to off-duty officers.