12 Killed Many Wounded At Country Bar

[One Bad Pig]

Sure, but that doesn't apply (in Texas, at least) to off-duty officers.

If you'd read the article I linked, we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.

[Cow Poke]

If you'd read the article I linked, we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.

I went to the link, Mr. SmartyPants, and it was a bunch of other links.

link.jpg

And you mentioned two different groups --- concealed carry persons and off-duty law enforcement.

[One Bad Pig]

I went to the link, and it was a bunch of other links. And you mentioned two different groups --- concealed carry persons and off-duty law enforcement.

Try the link again.

[Cow Poke]

Try the link again.

Tried again....

link.jpg

[One Bad Pig]

Tried again....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32958[/ATTACH]

The link in MY post, not your reply to it?

[Cow Poke]

The link in MY post, not your reply to it?

Thank you.

But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.

Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?

[One Bad Pig]

Thank you.

But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.

Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?

[Cow Poke]

OK, from the COMMENTS....



I think that might answer my question -- the fact that they were "moonlighting as security guards" may have required them (by house rules) to be unarmed, whereas if they were off-duty officers who happened to be in the bar, they would not necessarily have had to be unarmed.



I think that's the key distinction - if, in fact, they were operating as employees of the bar at the time.

[One Bad Pig]

(just bumping this in case you missed the cross-post)

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, I'm looking for actual fact, instead of "presumption".

Seriously, I'm curious if "California law" actually prohibits commissioned law enforcement from having weapons (off-duty, even) in bars, or if that was a condition of their employment as 'security' for the bar. Still looking.

[Cow Poke]

Seriously, I'm curious if "California law" actually prohibits commissioned law enforcement from having weapons (off-duty, even) in bars, or if that was a condition of their employment as 'security' for the bar. Still looking.

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a federal law enacted in 2004 that overrides local laws pertaining to law enforcement officers. There are exceptions, however, and I was trying to find California qualified...

leosa.jpg

Still looking. (Because I'm genuinely curious - not that it matters to anybody else)

[Sparko]

Thank you.

But that refers to concealed carry permit holders...

California issues very few concealed handgun permits and Ventura County is below the state per capita average rate, but permitted concealed handguns are banned in bars and other places where the primary source of revenue is from serving alcohol. Below is a picture of the first page of the concealed handgun permit application for California.

Can you pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top show me the part about the off-duty officers being there, and being unarmed?

regardless, if it was a bar, you said they can't carry if they are consuming alcohol, so since that is the primary reason to be in a bar, they were not carrying, even if it were allowed at other places/times.

ETA just saw the post about them being security guards. so ignore my post.

[Cow Poke]

regardless, if it was a bar, you said they can't carry if they are consuming alcohol, so since that is the primary reason to be in a bar, they were not carrying, even if it were allowed at other places/times.

Actually, some friends I know go with other friends as the designated driver, which means they're not consuming alcohol, they're playing pool and darts.

ETA just saw the post about them being security guards. so ignore my post.

Your post is hereby ignored.

[Littlejoe]

If you are an off duty officer working security, and can't carry (for what ever rule/reason) why wouldn't you at least were a Kevlar vest?

[Sparko]

If you are an off duty officer working security, and can't carry (for what ever rule/reason) why wouldn't you at least were a Kevlar vest?

You don't expect to be shot at. Security in a bar usually means being a bouncer and breaking up drunken fights. Vests are heavy, hot and uncomfortable.

But my question is why would a bar need 6 off duty police to work security? Either it is a very large bar, or very dangerous.