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Thread: Abortion outrage: Mums should be allowed to terminate newborns, say Australian academ

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Abortion outrage: Mums should be allowed to terminate newborns, say Australian academ

    KILLING newborn babies should be allowed if the mother wishes, Australian philosophers have argued in a prestigious journal.

    Their argument, that it is morally the same as abortion, has forced the British Medical Journal to defend its publication of their views.

    In an article that has sparked outrage around the world and elicited death threats, Monash and Melbourne University academics argue that a foetus and a newborn both lack a sense of life and aspiration.

    They argue this justifies "after-birth abortion" on the proviso it is painless as the baby is not missing out on a life it cannot contemplate.

    The doctors of philosophy argue in the BMJ publication Journal of Medical Ethics that one-third of infants with Down syndrome are not diagnosed in the womb, which means mothers of children with severe disabilities should have the chance to end a child's life after, as well as before, birth.

    However, the pair also want the principle of killing newborns extended to healthy babies, because a mother who is unwilling to care for it outweighs an infant's right to life.

    In the article, After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?, the authors argue: "A serious philosophical problem arises when the same conditions that would have justified abortion become known after birth. In such cases, we need to assess facts in order to decide whether the same arguments that apply to killing a human fetus can also be consistently applied to killing a newborn human."

    They also write that the practice should be called "after-birth abortion" and not "infanticide" to "emphasise that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a foetus (on which 'abortions' in the traditional sense are performed) rather than to that of a child".

    "We claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk. Accordingly, a second terminological specification is that we call such a practice ‘after-birth abortion’ rather than ‘euthanasia’ because the best interest of the one who dies is not necessarily the primary criterion for the choice, contrary to what happens in the case of euthanasia."

    Although the authors claim that the "moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus, that is, neither can be considered a 'person' in a morally relevant sense", they concede it is hard to exactly determine when a subject starts or ceases to be a "person".

    The editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics, Julian Savulescu, said the article had "elicited personally abusive correspondence to the authors, threatening their lives and personal safety". He said some of comments included:

    "These people are evil. Pure evil. That they feel safe in putting their twisted thoughts into words reveals how far we have fallen as a society."

    "Right now I think these two devils in human skin need to be delivered for immediate execution under their code of 'after birth abortions' they want to commit murder – that is all it is! MURDER!!!"

    "The fact that the Journal of Medical Ethics published this outrageous and immoral piece of work is even scarier"

    “Alberto Giubilini looks like a muslim so I have to agree with him that all muslims should have been aborted. If abortion fails, no life at birth – just like he wants."

    He defended the article, saying the arguments in the paper were not new. "The novel contribution of this paper is not an argument in favour of infanticide ... but rather their application in consideration of maternal and family interests. The paper also draws attention to the fact that infanticide is practised in the Netherlands."

    He said that "more than ever, proper academic discussion and freedom are under threat from fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society".

    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...b5003ca8d05346

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    Note: This is prolife activism, not a debate area. If you wish to debate this article, feel free to start a new thread.


    PS - what is this about infanticide being practiced in the Netherlands???

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    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
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    Pro-choicers seem to be more and more willing to bite the bullet and accept infanticide as a logical conclusion to at least some of their arguments.
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    "Monash and Melbourne University academics argue that a foetus and a newborn both lack a sense of life and aspiration.They argue this justifies "after-birth abortion" on the proviso it is painless as the baby is not missing out on a life it cannot contemplate."

    So now they don't care if it is a human being or not, just that it can't 'contemplate life'

    That sounds a lot like the Nazi arguments for killing the mentally disabled.

    I think these evil people are the ones who fail to contemplate what life means. To destroy a life before it can even get started. Maybe they are the ones who should be put down.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    Pro-choicers seem to be more and more willing to bite the bullet and accept infanticide as a logical conclusion to at least some of their arguments.
    My sociology professor from college (many years ago) told me on his deathbed (about 10 years ago) that the whole "overpopulation" lie was an attempt to make it easier to justify both infanticide and euthanasia - he was a lifelong liberal who became a conservative late in life.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  5. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Absolutely pathetic.


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  7. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    KILLING newborn babies should be allowed if the mother wishes, Australian philosophers have argued in a prestigious journal.

    Their argument, that it is morally the same as abortion, has forced the British Medical Journal to defend its publication of their views.

    In an article that has sparked outrage around the world and elicited death threats, Monash and Melbourne University academics argue that a foetus and a newborn both lack a sense of life and aspiration.

    They argue this justifies "after-birth abortion" on the proviso it is painless as the baby is not missing out on a life it cannot contemplate.

    The doctors of philosophy argue in the BMJ publication Journal of Medical Ethics that one-third of infants with Down syndrome are not diagnosed in the womb, which means mothers of children with severe disabilities should have the chance to end a child's life after, as well as before, birth.

    However, the pair also want the principle of killing newborns extended to healthy babies, because a mother who is unwilling to care for it outweighs an infant's right to life.

    In the article, After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?, the authors argue: "A serious philosophical problem arises when the same conditions that would have justified abortion become known after birth. In such cases, we need to assess facts in order to decide whether the same arguments that apply to killing a human fetus can also be consistently applied to killing a newborn human."

    They also write that the practice should be called "after-birth abortion" and not "infanticide" to "emphasise that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a foetus (on which 'abortions' in the traditional sense are performed) rather than to that of a child".

    "We claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk. Accordingly, a second terminological specification is that we call such a practice ‘after-birth abortion’ rather than ‘euthanasia’ because the best interest of the one who dies is not necessarily the primary criterion for the choice, contrary to what happens in the case of euthanasia."

    Although the authors claim that the "moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus, that is, neither can be considered a 'person' in a morally relevant sense", they concede it is hard to exactly determine when a subject starts or ceases to be a "person".

    The editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics, Julian Savulescu, said the article had "elicited personally abusive correspondence to the authors, threatening their lives and personal safety". He said some of comments included:

    "These people are evil. Pure evil. That they feel safe in putting their twisted thoughts into words reveals how far we have fallen as a society."

    "Right now I think these two devils in human skin need to be delivered for immediate execution under their code of 'after birth abortions' they want to commit murder – that is all it is! MURDER!!!"

    "The fact that the Journal of Medical Ethics published this outrageous and immoral piece of work is even scarier"

    “Alberto Giubilini looks like a muslim so I have to agree with him that all muslims should have been aborted. If abortion fails, no life at birth – just like he wants."

    He defended the article, saying the arguments in the paper were not new. "The novel contribution of this paper is not an argument in favour of infanticide ... but rather their application in consideration of maternal and family interests. The paper also draws attention to the fact that infanticide is practised in the Netherlands."

    He said that "more than ever, proper academic discussion and freedom are under threat from fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society".

    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...b5003ca8d05346

    ============
    Note: This is prolife activism, not a debate area. If you wish to debate this article, feel free to start a new thread.


    PS - what is this about infanticide being practiced in the Netherlands???
    And the push for "after-birth abortions" continues

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    My sociology professor from college (many years ago) told me on his deathbed (about 10 years ago) that the whole "overpopulation" lie was an attempt to make it easier to justify both infanticide and euthanasia - he was a lifelong liberal who became a conservative late in life.
    abortion has nothing to do with overpopulation, just convenience.

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    tWebber TheWall's Avatar
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    Sickening.

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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    If I can't have them, no one can? Because that sounds like what a sick villain would say! Do those people think the ancient Greeks and Romans were right to abandon infants? They think adoption is not an option?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    abortion has nothing to do with overpopulation, just convenience.
    The modern rise of abortion had a lot to do with eugenics, which is the overpopulation of undesirables.
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  13. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.

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