Florida Recount in Senate Race?

[JimL]

Not sure what judge you are talking about Jimbo. You might try actually posting a source for once.

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A Broward judge ordered the county’s elections chief to turn over to Rick Scott’s campaign for the U.S. Senate an accounting of total ballots cast and a breakdown of votes by category — all due by 7 p.m. Friday.

Circuit Judge Carol-Lisa Phillips also held that Brenda Snipes, BrowardÂ’s supervisor of elections, was in violation of Florida public-records laws for not fulfilling a request for that information by ScottÂ’s campaign.

Phillips ordered Snipes to turn over the number of all ballots cast in TuesdayÂ’s midterm elections, broken down by absentee, early, and Election Day votes. She also ordered her to provide the number of ballots still to be counted.

The information that Scott’s campaign sought in a lawsuit filed against Snipes “should be a matter of record at this time and immediately available,” the judge said. The campaign submitted its request for Broward’s ballot records on Thursday afternoon, just hours before it filed suit.


Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...#storylink=cpy


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...221394790.html

Old news, Sparko. Yes the judge ordered it, but if it can't be done by the Judges timeline, what are you going to do. I assume Snipes will be fired anyway, and probably should have been fired years ago by the Governor, i.e. by governor Scott. Personally I think Scott probably likes Broward and Palm Beach counties elections board being a mess, that way he can complain that democrats are trying to steal the election when things get messy.
Judge says no evidence of fraud. Tells big mouths, Trump and Scott to ramp down the rhetoric.
http://fortune.com/2018/11/12/florid...scott-results/

[Sparko]

Old news, Sparko. Yes the judge ordered it, but if it can't be done by the Judges timeline, what are you going to do. I assume Snipes will be fired anyway, and probably should have been fired years ago by the Governor, i.e. by governor Scott. Personally I think Scott probably likes Broward and Palm Beach counties elections board being a mess, that way he can complain that democrats are trying to steal the election when things get messy.
Judge says no evidence of fraud. Tells big mouths, Trump and Scott to ramp down the rhetoric.
http://fortune.com/2018/11/12/florid...scott-results/

Apparently a different aspect of the elections and a completely different judge.

During an emergency hearing held in a nearly empty courthouse closed for Veterans Day, Circuit Chief Judge Jack Tuter said to lawyers for both candidates, “I am urging, due to high public nature of this case, to ramp down the rhetoric,” according to several reporters present at the hearing, including CBS Miami.

From my post:

Circuit Judge Carol-Lisa Phillips also held that Brenda Snipes, Broward's supervisor of elections, was in violation of Florida public-records laws for not fulfilling a request for that information by Scott's campaign.

[Bill the Cat]

Apparently a different aspect of the elections and a completely different judge.

During an emergency hearing held in a nearly empty courthouse closed for Veterans Day, Circuit Chief Judge Jack Tuter said to lawyers for both candidates, “I am urging, due to high public nature of this case, to ramp down the rhetoric,” according to several reporters present at the hearing, including CBS Miami.

From my post:

Circuit Judge Carol-Lisa Phillips also held that Brenda Snipes, Broward's supervisor of elections, was in violation of Florida public-records laws for not fulfilling a request for that information by Scott's campaign.

P'shaw... you and your facts, Sparko...

[carpedm9587]

It still makes no sense to me how anyone can complain that they can't vote if they are legally allowed to. It's not hard. It MAY take some minimal effort, but that's part of the package.

I know it makes no sense to you, BTC - but it often happens. I've been digging into the situation in ND with the native reservation. Despite CPs insistence that everyone has an address, I saw several maps produced by the lawyers for the suit that shows streets in Google Maps and street after street was labeled "unknown" or "undefined." It is for this reason that so many of these people simply use PO Boxes. Then along comes a rule that changes the requirements to necessitate a street address, which they cannot provide. Result: they cannot vote. Is it solvable? Sure it is. But when these requirements are introduced near to an election cycle - it creates confusion and reduces the voter turn out.

The same happens with voter IDs. Some people simply lack the documentation required to secure the ID. This is especially true of older and poorer voters and may be the result of fires, lack of consistent documentation in some sections of the country in the Great Depression, etc. All of this is resolvable - but I personally have worked with people that it has taken a couple of years to resolve. The government is very hesitant to hand out IDs when the documentation supporting them is iffy and/or absent.

Then there are the places where ID requirements are intentionally trimmed to exclude people. In North Carolina, for example, Republicans in control requested information from the voter registrar that included the types of IDs presented by potential voters (e.g., driver's licenses, passports, birth certificates, etc.) broken down by race and ethnicity. They then wrote law to exclude specific ID types from consideration, primarily impacting minorities - which led the judge in the case to say the laws had been written to target minorities "with surgical precision."

Then you have "voter roll purges" and new laws that require "exact match" of name on ID and on voter roll, many times happening without the voter knowing it impacts them until they show up to vote. Seldom is a message sent that says, "we are purching you from the voter rolls - you need to take care of this before election day." If it DOES go out, it is often within days of election day, creating the predictable problems.

Then we add to that the list of polling places that get closed in the final days before an election, "to save money." Interestingly, they regularly get closed in areas with high minority populations and areas that are primarily impoverished. Areas where the wealthy live - almost never is a polling place closed there.

Combine all of these things and you have a problem, in my opinion, that is documentable and significant. But instead of looking at THIS what is being paid attention to is "massive voter fraud" that no one can show to actually happen.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...


ETA: just saw your response to someone else BTC. NVM. I'm reasonably sure all of this will be dismissed with "minimal effort." Having worked directly with many people impacted in such ways, I know it's not. But that clearly will not convince you. 'Nuff said.

[JimL]

Apparently a different aspect of the elections and a completely different judge.

During an emergency hearing held in a nearly empty courthouse closed for Veterans Day, Circuit Chief Judge Jack Tuter said to lawyers for both candidates, “I am urging, due to high public nature of this case, to ramp down the rhetoric,” according to several reporters present at the hearing, including CBS Miami.

Right, but we know who he was refering to, he was refering to the clowns who are suggesting that democracy doesn't work, i.e the whiners, Scott, Desantis and Trump.

From my post:

Circuit Judge Carol-Lisa Phillips also held that Brenda Snipes, Broward's supervisor of elections, was in violation of Florida public-records laws for not fulfilling a request for that information by Scott's campaign.

Yes, again, it isn't like you just came up with something new here, that ruling was 4 days ago. Scott could have, and still can, fire Snipes any time he wants. He could have fired her 4 years ago, 8 years ago, but he never did. The reason she was found in violation of that law is because she wasn't able to comply and she wasn't able to comply because the system is more than she or anyone else can handle. But again, as Judge Tuter said, no evidence of fraud, and it is irresponsible of Trump and Scott to be suggesting as much. Although Trump is doing his best to bring down democratic institutions so it isn't surprising coming from him and his cronies.

[Starlight]

Personally I think Scott probably likes Broward and Palm Beach counties elections board being a mess, that way he can complain that democrats are trying to steal the election when things get messy.

The key move is that there's a Florida law that puts a (pointless) hard deadline of Thursday on the recount, and says any counties that haven't submitted their recounts by then simply don't count toward the final total.

So careful underfunding of election resources means that the larger (democratic-leaning) counties are not going to be able to meet any recount deadlines, and if you staff them with incompetent people so much the better. It's how-to-steal-elections 2000 style.

[Tassman]

That was one judge in one county at one single moment in time. As I posted earlier they actually made two arrests in Dade country of verified voter fraud. And every single election it seems Broward and Dade County always have problems with ballots, losing them, finding them, miscounting them, hanging chads, or some other excuse.

The bottom line is that there have been NO election observers and law enforcement officials or judges saying that there's any organised wrongdoing in Broward County, despite the president's and Scott’s claims to the contrary and the conspiracy theories being regurgitated by many here.

[JimL]

The key move is that there's a Florida law that puts a (pointless) hard deadline of Thursday on the recount, and says any counties that haven't submitted their recounts by then simply don't count toward the final total.

So careful underfunding of election resources means that the larger (democratic-leaning) counties are not going to be able to meet any recount deadlines, and if you staff them with incompetent people so much the better. It's how-to-steal-elections 2000 style.

Exactly my thought. Republicans have been running the state for decades now and they want to be able to scream fraud and blame the continuing problems in counting and reporting ballot tallies within a specific timeline, which they know can't be met, on the republican appointed superintendent of elections. It's a joke. But it is just one of the many republican party tactics used in trying to hold onto power where they see it quickly slipping through their unethical hands.

[Sparko]

Right, but we know who he was refering to, he was refering to the clowns who are suggesting that democracy doesn't work, i.e the whiners, Scott, Desantis and Trump.

Yes, again, it isn't like you just came up with something new here, that ruling was 4 days ago. Scott could have, and still can, fire Snipes any time he wants. He could have fired her 4 years ago, 8 years ago, but he never did. The reason she was found in violation of that law is because she wasn't able to comply and she wasn't able to comply because the system is more than she or anyone else can handle. But again, as Judge Tuter said, no evidence of fraud, and it is irresponsible of Trump and Scott to be suggesting as much. Although Trump is doing his best to bring down democratic institutions so it isn't surprising coming from him and his cronies.

Jim, I am not picking sides here, republican or democrat. BOTH sides seem determined to screw up the elections. There is cheating going on in Florida, pure and simple. Probably from both sides. They have found plenty of evidence of it, and have arrested people for it, despite what that Judge said. And if not outright fraud, complete incompetence and mismanagement. Losing and finding boxes and boxes of ballots? No chain of command? Just loading them into rental trucks and leaving boxes behind?

Once the ballots are not in the chain of custody, their is no telling what happens to them. Someone can take ballots out, add ballots in, etc.

And the sad fact is that this has happened before. Several times. So is it just incompetence or is it deliberate?

[Cow Poke]

---on the republican appointed superintendent of elections---

Please allow me to help educate you on this, Jim...

A) Dr Brenda Snipes is the superintendent for Broward County, not the State of Florida - it is her area that is continually in a mess
2) The Republican who appointed her - Jeb Bush - regrets that he did, and any attempt to remove her would have been met with screams of RACISM!!!!

“There is no question that Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes failed to comply with Florida law on multiple counts, undermining Floridians’ confidence in our electoral process,” Bush tweeted on Monday. “Supervisor Snipes should be removed from her office following the recounts.”

[Sparko]

The bottom line is that there have been NO election observers and law enforcement officials or judges saying that there's any organised wrongdoing in Broward County, despite the president's and Scott’s claims to the contrary and the conspiracy theories being regurgitated by many here.

There have been actual arrests, two of which I posted earlier. Organized? probably not. Fraud? definitely.

[JimL]

Jim, I am not picking sides here, republican or democrat. BOTH sides seem determined to screw up the elections. There is cheating going on in Florida, pure and simple. Probably from both sides. They have found plenty of evidence of it, and have arrested people for it, despite what that Judge said. And if not outright fraud, complete incompetence and mismanagement. Losing and finding boxes and boxes of ballots? No chain of command? Just loading them into rental trucks and leaving boxes behind?

Once the ballots are not in the chain of custody, their is no telling what happens to them. Someone can take ballots out, add ballots in, etc.

And the sad fact is that this has happened before. Several times. So is it just incompetence or is it deliberate?

You're repeating false stories though. No ballots were lost or found at the last minute. A box with voting supplies, not ballots, was left behind at a polling place and turned into a story of ballots being lost and found. The only thing going on is the counting of mailed in ballots. Just reported this morning, the Palm Beach county recount has been stopped because the old machines have overheated. So, if you want to blame the system, then blame the republican administrations that have run the state for the last decades with no fix.

[JimL]

Please allow me to help educate you on this, Jim...

A) Dr Brenda Snipes is the superintendent for Broward County, not the State of Florida - it is her area that is continually in a mess
2) The Republican who appointed her - Jeb Bush - regrets that he did, and any attempt to remove her would have been met with screams of RACISM!!!!

No kidding, CP? I've made it quite clear what Snipes position was in this thread. What county did you think we were talking about? Try to pay attention. The Governor still has the power to appoint and to fire her, so I couldn't care less about your excuses. Besides that, it isn't just about incompetence on the part of Snipes, it's incompetence on the part of the Scott administration for not fixing the system in the first place intead of complaining about its incompetence and false accusations of fraud.

“There is no question that Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes failed to comply with Florida law on multiple counts, undermining Floridians’ confidence in our electoral process,” Bush tweeted on Monday. “Supervisor Snipes should be removed from her office following the recounts.”

Then she should have been fired long ago the same way she was hired, by the republican administration in charge.

[Cow Poke]

You're repeating false stories though. No ballots were lost or found at the last minute. A box with voting supplies, not ballots, was left behind at a polling place and turned into a story of ballots being lost and found. The only thing going on is the counting of mailed in ballots. Just reported this morning, the Palm Beach county recount has been stopped because the old machines have overheated. So, if you want to blame the system, then blame the republican administrations that have run the state for the last decades with no fix.

Jim, 65 of the 67 counties in the state of Florida apparently had no major problems. The biggest headache seems to be in Broward County, which is headed, not by a Republican, but Dr Brenda Snipes, a Democrat. While you try to twist this story by calling her "Republican appointed" - it was, as I pointed out, Jeb Bush who appointed her, who is also now calling for her to resign. She was an abject failure.

Thankfully, she seems to be agreeing with Jeb - "A day after Jeb Bush called for her to resign, Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes said "it is time to move on" from her role overseeing the Florida county office".

[Cow Poke]

No kidding, CP? I've made it quite clear what Snipes position was in this thread.

No, you failed to point out that she, a Democrat, has been an absolute abject failure. You're still trying to blame her on the Republicans. Jeb took a chance on her, and she blew it.