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Florida Recount in Senate Race?

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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I have no idea if the supporters of this are "trying to get more liberal votes" or not. I know that there are movements in several states, many initiated by the kids themselves at the high-school level, to reduce the voting age. Here in Vermont, it turns out we have no minimum age for the governor's office, and a very articulate teenager ran in the last election. He is promoting a lowered voting age.

    And, frankly, if 16-17 year-olds are likely to vote liberal today, then Reps have a far more serious problem. That suggests that the next generation is strongly leaning left. Liberals already seriously outnumber conservatives. If that trend continues. it suggests that the time when conservatives have significant political power is drawing to a close. Maybe conservatives should consider why it is that their message is being rejected by so many in the coming generations...?
    kids usually start out liberal but turn conservative when they have to start paying bills and taxes.

    I don't think kids without jobs, still living with their parents who can't even enter into a contract should be deciding who runs the country and what my money is being spent on. That is just ridiculous.

    And actually I have read that the new generation is becoming more conservative. So maybe if that is so, the liberals won't want them voting.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
      There's your mistake. You're looking at the data, not guessing based on uninformed opinion, unverified anecdotes and blind acceptance of propaganda.


      My bad - what WAS I thinking?
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        according to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ection_results, if I didn't miss one,
        You missed one.

        Virginia house delegate election, 1971 - Moss v Burch, 16410 votes apiece.

        Added: There are a lot listed. Were you filtering results?
        Last edited by Roy; 11-13-2018, 11:53 AM.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          kids usually start out liberal but turn conservative when they have to start paying bills and taxes.
          That's a pretty wide, sweeping statement, Sparko. If it were true, conservatives would by far outnumber liberals. So I think we can safely say that SOME children go this path. It may even be many children. The numbers suggest that the majority (by some margin) don't.

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I don't think kids without jobs, still living with their parents who can't even enter into a contract should be deciding who runs the country and what my money is being spent on. That is just ridiculous.
          I think many of today's kids are amazing. I'd have no problem with a 16-17 year old voting. By that age, they are typically tried as adults in the event of a crime. Clearly there is at least some precedent for treating them as adults.

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          And actually I have read that the new generation is becoming more conservative. So maybe if that is so, the liberals won't want them voting.
          It would not surprise me to see a conservative-leaning trend in the next generation. As with many things, these things tend to come in cycles. Given the enormously strong liberal leaning of the last two generations, which leads to the liberal strength today, a swing back makes sense.

          It will be interesting to see what impact the "Trump party" has on them. In general, my experience is that the young have little tolerance for hypocrisy and disinginuity. I have to wonder what they will do with the lying/self-serving/vengeance-seeking/name-calling leadership that has emerged, and the evangelical response to it (i.e., acceptance).
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Those are only the frauds we have caught though Jim. And the fact that it is going on at all is a problem to me. I don't care which side is doing it.
            That is is happening does not itself imply action is needed. Assuming the catch rates are at least 10% of the actual fraud, at percentages this low it would appear the controls in place are adequate against explicit fraud. Almost all races are won by >1000 votes. Hacker interference is another issue but when you are dealing with rates this low, you are just as likely as not to get diminishing returns trying to make it better. So I tend to think you'd need evidence a massive number of frauds are going undetected to warrant enhancement of the current protocols.

            I do not mean to diminish the thread of voter fraud. Our democracy depends on a secure and accurate voting system. I'm just saying if these numbers are in any way representative of what the real fraud rates are, there is no need to be alarmed unless they were to change. There is little if any chance fraud rates this low can affect congressional, senate, or presidential election results.



            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              That's a pretty wide, sweeping statement, Sparko. If it were true, conservatives would by far outnumber liberals. So I think we can safely say that SOME children go this path. It may even be many children. The numbers suggest that the majority (by some margin) don't.



              I think many of today's kids are amazing. I'd have no problem with a 16-17 year old voting. By that age, they are typically tried as adults in the event of a crime. Clearly there is at least some precedent for treating them as adults.



              It would not surprise me to see a conservative-leaning trend in the next generation. As with many things, these things tend to come in cycles. Given the enormously strong liberal leaning of the last two generations, which leads to the liberal strength today, a swing back makes sense.

              It will be interesting to see what impact the "Trump party" has on them. In general, my experience is that the young have little tolerance for hypocrisy and disinginuity. I have to wonder what they will do with the lying/self-serving/vengeance-seeking/name-calling leadership that has emerged, and the evangelical response to it (i.e., acceptance).
              It can go either way, unfortunately. Teens tend to be idealistic, but what their ideals are is still very malleable and their lack of life experience makes them easily swayed by arguments that to those of us past our mid-life are obvious falsehoods.

              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                That he didn't, considering her continuing sordid history, could be viewed as a dereliction of duty. You even had the left of center Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC -- the roots of which go back to Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott and founded by such civil rights icons as MLK Jr. and Ralph David Abernathy) calling for her head on a platter (figuratively of course) because of her gross negligence and incompetence.
                Right, but she is also responsible for the largest county in Fla. and they have older voting machines which makes her job much more difficult than the rest of the state. Scott was governor for 8 years and has no one to blame but himself for the slow electoral process in Broward and Palm beach, and I can't help but wonder if not adressing the problem wasn't purposeful on his part. I mean, if Broward and Palm Beach counties, democratic strongholds, ran the election process smoothly, how could Scott and Trump call foul in a close election.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  This is a commonly sited claim - and it's entirely bogus. It translates to, "we can't see it - we can't prove it exists - but we have to spend enormous time and energy to prevent it - even if it means thousands of people who used to be able to vote cannot vote."

                  The entire argument makes no sense. Show the problem exists - then we derive a proportional response to the problem.

                  I will also note that the insistence that we take all these precautions, which predominantly impact poor and minority voters (who are known to predominantly vote liberal/Democrat) is the reason why the claim of racism is so often made. Personally, I don't think it is racism. I think it is a blatant attempt on the part of those on the right who support this to suppress the liberal/Democrat vote. With the right already outnumbered, if this vote cannot be suppressed by one means or another, then it will be increasingly difficult to win elections and causes. Gerrymandering serves the same basic purpose. BOTH sides do that one, though the Reps have proven themselves to be far more capable in that domain (i.e., operation Red Map). I would hope that, as Dems retake power, they will simply undo the gerrymandering by the leadership on the right. My fear, however, is that they will simply replace it with their own.
                  It still makes no sense to me how anyone can complain that they can't vote if they are legally allowed to. It's not hard. It MAY take some minimal effort, but that's part of the package.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • Looks like Snipes might be on the way out. #notholdingmybreath

                    =====
                    Broward County Elections Supervisor To Be 'Forced From Office' After Violating Florida Law, Says Report

                    After a judge found her to have violated Florida elections law and amid reports of more highly suspicious actions by her office, the supervisor of elections for Broward County, Brenda Snipes, is expected to be "forced from office" by either Gov. Rick Scott or governor-elect Ron DeSantis, Politico reports.

                    "Counting unlawful votes. Destroying ballots. Sunshine Law violations. Busted deadlines," Politico's Marc Caputo writes. "So many controversies have bedeviled Broward County Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes — culminating in her office’s troubles in the aftermath of Florida’s chaotic 2018 elections — that her days in office are now numbered, insiders and lawmakers say."
                    ...
                    Republican Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who has been sounding the alarm over the actions of Broward and Palm Beach, slammed Snipes' office as "the most troubled elections office in the nation" and Snipes as having "shown she’s incapable of conducting a large and important election in a way that inspires public confidence and trust."

                    Among the troubling actions of Snipes, he noted, are destroying ballots and opening absentee ballots early, both in violation of state law, and misprinting ballots. Her office was also caught mixing in illegal votes with valid votes
                    https://www.dailywire.com/news/38230...ign=benshapiro


                    What was that about no evidence of wrongdoing in Broward county?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      It still makes no sense to me how anyone can complain that they can't vote if they are legally allowed to. It's not hard. It MAY take some minimal effort, but that's part of the package.
                      They can't vote if they've, unbeknownst to themselves, been removed from the registry rolls, they can't vote if all kinds of new rules have been made, such as "exact match", or when hundreds of polling places have been closed so that voters have to stand in line for hours on end after working all day, or if the polling places were moved miles away without transportation available etc etc. It also makes it difficult when republican lawmakers enact all these new rules at the last minute when they know the courts won't interfere.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        And if you're a Democrat the right to vote several times or for those who didn't

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]32997[/ATTACH]
                        Brenda Snipes
                        Broward County Elections Supervisor
                        Do the stickers represent how many times she voted?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          They can't vote if they've, unbeknownst to themselves, been removed from the registry rolls,
                          Everyone should check their status. My state makes it easy.

                          https://www.elections.virginia.gov/r...nfo/index.html

                          And everyone has access through the public library.

                          they can't vote if all kinds of new rules have been made, such as "exact match",
                          Sure they can. Fix what is wrong and move on.

                          or when hundreds of polling places have been closed so that voters have to stand in line for hours on end after working all day,
                          I stood in line for 2 hours the other day. In the rain. They had drive-up handicap voting at my precinct, so anyone who was disabled went to the front of the line. They even had poll workers go to your car if you had difficulty walking.

                          or if the polling places were moved miles away without transportation available
                          Phone a friend.

                          It also makes it difficult when republican lawmakers enact all these new rules at the last minute when they know the courts won't interfere.
                          None are insurmountable. As I said... minimal effort.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Looks like Snipes might be on the way out. #notholdingmybreath

                            =====
                            Broward County Elections Supervisor To Be 'Forced From Office' After Violating Florida Law, Says Report

                            After a judge found her to have violated Florida elections law and amid reports of more highly suspicious actions by her office, the supervisor of elections for Broward County, Brenda Snipes, is expected to be "forced from office" by either Gov. Rick Scott or governor-elect Ron DeSantis, Politico reports.

                            "Counting unlawful votes. Destroying ballots. Sunshine Law violations. Busted deadlines," Politico's Marc Caputo writes. "So many controversies have bedeviled Broward County Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes — culminating in her office’s troubles in the aftermath of Florida’s chaotic 2018 elections — that her days in office are now numbered, insiders and lawmakers say."
                            ...
                            Republican Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who has been sounding the alarm over the actions of Broward and Palm Beach, slammed Snipes' office as "the most troubled elections office in the nation" and Snipes as having "shown sheÂ’s incapable of conducting a large and important election in a way that inspires public confidence and trust."

                            Among the troubling actions of Snipes, he noted, are destroying ballots and opening absentee ballots early, both in violation of state law, and misprinting ballots. Her office was also caught mixing in illegal votes with valid votes
                            https://www.dailywire.com/news/38230...ign=benshapiro


                            What was that about no evidence of wrongdoing in Broward county?
                            The Judge actually ruled that there was no evidence of fraud and suggested that the underminers of democracy, i.e. Scott, Trump, Desantis, knock of the rhetoric. Scott has been Governor for 8 years and was elected with Snipes at the helm in Broward county. So, Scott is as responsible as anyone for the continuing elections difficulties in Broward and Palm Beach.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              The Judge actually ruled that there was no evidence of fraud and suggested that the underminers of democracy, i.e. Scott, Trump, Desantis, knock of the rhetoric. Scott has been Governor for 8 years and was elected with Snipes at the helm in Broward county. So, Scott is as responsible as anyone for the continuing elections difficulties in Broward and Palm Beach.
                              Not sure what judge you are talking about Jimbo. You might try actually posting a source for once.

                              ===========
                              A Broward judge ordered the county’s elections chief to turn over to Rick Scott’s campaign for the U.S. Senate an accounting of total ballots cast and a breakdown of votes by category — all due by 7 p.m. Friday.

                              Circuit Judge Carol-Lisa Phillips also held that Brenda Snipes, Broward’s supervisor of elections, was in violation of Florida public-records laws for not fulfilling a request for that information by Scott’s campaign.

                              Phillips ordered Snipes to turn over the number of all ballots cast in Tuesday’s midterm elections, broken down by absentee, early, and Election Day votes. She also ordered her to provide the number of ballots still to be counted.

                              The information that Scott’s campaign sought in a lawsuit filed against Snipes “should be a matter of record at this time and immediately available,” the judge said. The campaign submitted its request for Broward’s ballot records on Thursday afternoon, just hours before it filed suit.

                              Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...#storylink=cpy

                              https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...221394790.html

                              Comment


                              • We'll see if this pans out...

                                Breaking Report: Broward County Deputy Says Civil Rights Attorneys Were Handing Out Absentee Ballots to Inmates AFTER ELECTION?

                                https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...fter-election/
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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