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What is Socialism?

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  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
    Learn to read, troll. I neither said nor implied any such thing.
    Roy’s own words:

    “- it forcefully imported and exploited labour from other countries”

    It’s funny to be called a troll by the same person that post such obvious troll post, a lack of self awareness? Anyway, troll boy, are you talking about the slaves that the Europeans sent here in the colonial times or the illegal slave trade that the US banned early in our history? Please tell me what you mean about this statement. I’ll wait.

    Laugh it up troll, but it’s an established historical fact that the US military dominance is a post WW2 thing with military modernization happening years after the US was already established as a leading economy in the 1890’s. If you’re going to post half truths and historical falsehoods, in your sad attempt to troll, at least make sure they are not this easy to refute.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 02-27-2019, 10:55 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      Roy’s own words:

      “- it forcefully imported and exploited labour from other countries”

      It’s funny to be called a troll by the same person that post such obvious troll post, a lack of self awareness? Anyway, troll boy, are you talking about the slaves that the Europeans sent here in the colonial times or the illegal slave trade that the US banned early in our history? Please tell me what you mean about this statement. I’ll wait.



      Laugh it up troll, but it’s an established historical fact that the US military dominance is a post WW2 thing with military modernization happening years after the US was already established as a leading economy in the 1890’s. If you’re going to post half truths and historical falsehoods, in your sad attempt to troll, at least make sure they are not this easy to refute.
      Read my post to Roy.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        If you and LPOT are going to go at each other again, don't do it in this thread. I ask both of you to avoid each other or leave the thread. Thanks.
        No problem.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Some of them even think that if a country's government claims it is a socialist democracy then it must actually be a socialist democracy.
          Amusingly it's usually the same people who are so against the idea that a man can claim to be a woman and can be a woman just cos he claims to be one. Yet they think a country is or isn't socialist just cos it says so.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            You are not a socialist, you are a socialist fanboy. If you were a socialist, you should move to a socialist country, like Cuba or Venezuela. bye.
            Or I could move to a country currently led by the ex-president of the International Union of Socialist Youth... ie New Zealand.

            So in Venezuela, the people elected Maduro to "represent" their interests. The result is that the state owns the means of production and the people starve. So in fact the government owns the means of production.
            To the best of my knowledge the state does not own the means of production in Venezuela. I recall finding last time I looked up the statistics that the govt of Venezuela is no 'bigger' and no more in control over their economy than any average capitalist Western nation. Do you have any data to the contrary?

            Or are you just assuming this to be the case because you have naively believed their claim to be "socialist" and because you have gullibly believed that and filtered it through your own beliefs about what you think that means for a country?
            Last edited by Starlight; 02-27-2019, 02:13 PM.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              Or I could move to a country currently led by the ex-president of the International Union of Socialist Youth... ie New Zealand.
              well since NZ isn't socialist, no. You need to go to an actual socialist country so you can get the whole experience.


              To the best of my knowledge the state does not own the means of production in Venezuela. I recall finding last time I looked up the statistics that the govt of Venezuela is no 'bigger' and no more in control over their economy than any average capitalist Western nation. Do you have any data to the contrary?
              Just people standing in line outside of a state owned grocery store trying to get food that they don't have because the state run bakery can't get flour.
              Venezuelans Are Marked With Numbers To Stand In Line At Government Supermarkets
              https://www.businessinsider.com/vene...or-food-2014-3

              Even the privately owned grocery stores can't get any bread.

              Armando Mirando, vice president of the Tachira State Bakeries Association, told AFP that San Cristobal could run out of bread by Tuesday...
              "We already had shortages before and now nothing is arriving," Mirando said after addressing a "peace conference" organized by the government to end the protests but shunned by the opposition as a sham.

              Maduro also took over the Kellog plant, the GM plant and the Goodyear plant.

              He is taking over the press and blocking websites: https://aleteia.org/2018/07/06/venez...by-government/

              The state owns all the oil fields.

              “It’s not only the nationalization of land,” said Carlos Machado, an expert on Venezuelan agriculture. “The government has made the decision to be the producer, processor and distributor, so the entire chain of food production suffers from an inefficient agricultural bureaucracy.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ab2be1d5d527

              Maybe we can start up a gofundme to get you a ticket to move there. You can show them how it is supposed to be done.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                You need to go to an actual socialist country so you can get the whole experience.
                I would be quite happy to visit Cuba.

                Just people standing in line outside of a state owned grocery store trying to get food that they don't have because the state run bakery can't get flour.
                Venuzuala has plenty of privately run capitalist supermarkets. How well stocked they are is probably largely a function of international sanctions.

                The government runs a few cheaper supermarkets which allow poorer people who are willing to stand in line for hours at a time to get some food for cheaper. They serve different social security numbers on different days. It's a slightly different way of doing what you'd call food stamps in the US.

                Even the privately owned grocery stores can't get any bread.
                Perhaps the US should stop doing sanctions then?

                So you are admitting that there are privately owned grocery stores and hence that the country isn't socialist by your definition?
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Or I could move to a country currently led by the ex-president of the International Union of Socialist Youth... ie New Zealand.
                  Would you have to move out of New Zealand to move to it?



                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    I would be quite happy to visit Cuba.

                    Venuzuala has plenty of privately run capitalist supermarkets. How well stocked they are is probably largely a function of international sanctions.

                    The government runs a few cheaper supermarkets which allow poorer people who are willing to stand in line for hours at a time to get some food for cheaper. They serve different social security numbers on different days. It's a slightly different way of doing what you'd call food stamps in the US.

                    Perhaps the US should stop doing sanctions then?

                    So you are admitting that there are privately owned grocery stores and hence that the country isn't socialist by your definition?
                    There are a few privately owned grocery stores who depend on the government for supply and as the article said, they have none. And this is a whole nation starving and standing in line Star.

                    Every socialist country allows a few businesses here and there tightly regulated and controlled, but the state controls the economy, the factories, the big farms, the oil, the MEANS OF PRODUCTION.

                    The state is in complete control.

                    and what do you mean "poorer people?" I thought that socialism fixed all that so there was no more poverty? How can there be people using food stamps if socialism fixes everything?

                    Comment


                    • indian.jpg

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        I would be quite happy to visit Cuba.
                        Welcome back!

                        ETA: Oh, never mind.
                        Last edited by Cow Poke; 06-25-2019, 12:03 PM.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment

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