What is Socialism?

[Roy]

Those who slack off, refuse to work, and expect a handout should get nothing. They should be refused aid. That contradicts the whole "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" mantra of the left.

Howso?

Those who refuse to work are excluding themselves from the benefits of the second clause by not meeting their obligations under the first.

[Roy]

Let's stop there and leave off the rest of the song

Quote-miner

[rogue06]

Howso?

Those who refuse to work are excluding themselves from the benefits of the second clause by not meeting their obligations under the first.

While there was welfare reform pushed through by the Republicans when Clinton was in office that required those who are able-bodied receiving assistance or at least being able to show a consistent effort to find work, Democrats have made a concerted effort since then to roll back those requirements and allow the willfully idle who are merely looking for others to pay their way to do so.

Moreover, it is "from each according to their ability," meaning taking from those who have money, and "to each according to his need," meaning giving to others based on their need for money. There is nothing there that says those taking the money have to do anything whatsoever to earn it. All they need is to "need" it. So you can sit on your butt all day demanding stuff from those that work just because you don't have any money.

[Roy]

Moreover, it is "from each according to their ability," meaning taking from those who have money,...

There is more to ability than wealth.

No wonder you are so against communism, if you see it purely in terms of money and not in terms of work.

[Starlight]

Moreover, it is "from each according to their ability," meaning taking from those who have money, and "to each according to his need," meaning giving to others based on their need for money. There is nothing there that says those taking the money have to do anything whatsoever to earn it. All they need is to "need" it. So you can sit on your butt all day demanding stuff from those that work just because you don't have any money.

?

Are you trying to tell us what we believe, or tell us what you'd find it convenient if we believed in order to facilitate your opposition to our views? You expounding the 'true' interpretation of left-wing views to us, as if you were some sort of papal authority on what our views should be, is just bizarre.

[rogue06]

?

Are you trying to tell us what we believe, or tell us what you'd find it convenient if we believed in order to facilitate your opposition to our views? You expounding the 'true' interpretation of left-wing views to us, as if you were some sort of papal authority on what our views should be, is just bizarre.

I'm telling you what "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need" is saying. No need to work. No need to earn. Just stick your hand out and demand because you "need" it.

Considering that Marx was pretty much a moocher his entire life^[1] and failing to provide for his wife and children, it is no surprise that he would come up with such a philosophy. As Aristotle once noted in, IIRC, his Nicomachean Ethics that "Men start revolutionary changes for reasons connected with their private lives."





1. leading his mother to exasperatingly proclaim, according to noted historian Paul Johnson CBE, that she wished that her son Karl would "accumulate capital instead of just writing about it."

[rogue06]

There is more to ability than wealth.

No wonder you are so against communism, if you see it purely in terms of money and not in terms of work.

I'll assume from this you are conceding your earlier error

[Starlight]

I'm telling you what "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need" is saying.

How about you listen to the socialists here on the subject and actually learn something rather than trying to inflict your ignorance/stupidity on the subject onto us?

No need to work. No need to earn. Just stick your hand out and demand because you "need" it.

Your dumbness is embarrassing for you.

Considering that Marx was pretty much a moocher his entire life and failing to provide for his wife and children, it is no surprise that he would come up with such a philosophy.

Marx wasn't an advocate of mooching while not working. Marx was an advocate for the working class, which he, as you note, was not actually a part of, so it is interesting to consider that he was advocating for political and economic changes that wouldn't have necessarily benefited himself at all.

I would say if Karl Marx had a single overarching goal it was to improve the lives of the people in the working class and empower them politically and economically. I see that as a major way in which Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism was a complete break from Marx as they often brought much worse conditions to people in the working class, and to a major extent did not even seem interested in improving their working conditions, and certainly didn't do much to empower them.

[rogue06]

How about you listen to the socialists here on the subject and actually learn something rather than trying to inflict your ignorance/stupidity on the subject onto us?

Your dumbness is embarrassing for you.

Isn't having to read your laughably feeble attempt at changing what Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said into something you then called "essentially correct" more than enough?

And as many others have noted whenever you start hurling insults rather than debate with what was said it is a sure sign that you know you just got schooled

[Cow Poke]

How about you listen to the socialists here...

Cause when you get 3 socialists together, you get at least 5 opinions.

[Roy]

I'll assume from this you are conceding your earlier error

Feel free to make any false assumptions you wish.

[Starlight]

Cause when you get 3 socialists together, you get at least 5 opinions.

That's fair. And I'm pleased to hear that at least one conservative on this site actually understands the extent of diversity among socialists. Also, amusing factoid: Many scholars distinguish between Marx's own earlier views and his later views, so in that case Marx himself held at least 2 different views. (And that's not even counting the fact that many of those scholars tend to disagree with each other over exactly what Marx's views actually were... Marx is as bad as the Bible when it comes to two people reading it having different interpretations of the meaning of the text.)

But the amusing thing is that Sparko and Rogue seem to be Totally Sure Exactly What Socialism Is, and are telling it to the rest of us. Though their views do seem slightly different.

[Starlight]

Roy I would be interested in hearing your perspective and views on Communism(s), if you feel like writing an explanatory post.

[Roy]

Roy I would be interested in hearing your perspective and views on Communism(s), if you feel like writing an explanatory post.

Depends whether you mean Marx and his contemporaries' political theories, or the Russian/Chinese governments, or how the latter didn't implement the former.

[Starlight]

Depends whether you mean Marx and his contemporaries' political theories, or the Russian/Chinese governments, or how the latter didn't implement the former.

Yes. Everything you would like to tell me. :)