Clapper: Russia swung the election

[Charles]

I have not seen much talk about the interesting statement by Clapper that Russia swung the election. At first I was rather reluctant to accept the statement since there is always a very large proportion of speculation involved in stating what would have happened in the past if certain conditions had been different. However I his following statement shows that his line of reasoning is based on some very interesting fact and is not so easy to ignore.

“As a private citizen, it’s what I would call my informed opinion that, given the massive effort the Russians made, and the number of citizens that they touched, and the variety and multi-dimensional aspects of what they did to influence opinion … and given the fact that it turned on less than 80,000 votes in three states, to me it exceeds logic and credulity that they didn’t affect the election. And it’s my belief they actually turned it.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.ceb64977b4f8

I think this is very fact based speculation and a very interesting perspective. And then there is this interesting perspective in the same article:

Even if you put aside whatever the Trump campaign did or didn’t do to conspire with Russian sabotage, what’s left is this obvious fact: Trump and his GOP allies don’t want to know the full story of what Russia’s operation entailed in and of itself, because it doesn’t concern them in the least, and indeed they are engaged in an active effort to keep that story suppressed.

[One Bad Pig]

I have not seen much talk about the interesting statement by Clapper that Russia swung the election. At first I was rather reluctant to accept the statement....

That is all.

[Charles]

That is all.

As everyone can clearly see in my post that is not all. So do you have anything of substance to provide? Feel free.

[Bill the Cat]

Unless he has evidence that Russia changed a single vote, he's an idiot and his suspicions are conspiracy theory level garbage...

[One Bad Pig]

As everyone can clearly see in my post that is not all. So do you have anything of substance to provide? Feel free.

As everyone can clearly see, I am mocking your purported reluctance as not credible. Do you have any evidence to support it? Feel free.

[Charles]

As everyone can clearly see, I am mocking your purported reluctance as not credible. Do you have any evidence to support it? Feel free.

As everyone can clearly see I actually point to what made me give it a second thought, namely the quote from Clapper. If someone does a massive effort to change peoples opinions and get in touch with a very large amount of people and very few votes change the outcome it seems rather likely that things would have been different if the effort had not been made. I find it a little funny that you do not deal with that point but try to create noise instead.

[Charles]

Unless he has evidence that Russia changed a single vote, he's an idiot and his suspicions are conspiracy theory level garbage...

Have you ever heard of the word "likely"? During the Cold War lots of efforts were made to change people's opinions. How would you prove in a singe instance that a particular person held a particular view because of the manipulation the KGB? Not so easy because you cannot prove they would not have held the opinion anyway. Would that lead you to the conclusion that anyone who believes the manipulation actually did work in some cases is in idiot? The idea that not a single vote was changed seems to be what you hold on to, but for what reason? Can you prove it? If not then why do you hold on to it so strongly?

[Mountain Man]

"As a private citizen, it’s what I would call my informed opinion that blah blah blah... "

And it's my informed opinion as a private citizen that Clapper's opinion isn't worth the miniscule bandwidth it took to read his opinion on the internet.

[One Bad Pig]

As everyone can clearly see I actually point to what made me give it a second thought, namely the quote from Clapper. If someone does a massive effort to change peoples opinions and get in touch with a very large amount of people and very few votes change the outcome it seems rather likely that things would have been different if the effort had not been made. I find it a little funny that you do not deal with that point but try to create noise instead.

As everyone can clearly see, you are trying to avoid dealing with the point I raised. I find it a little funny that you do not deal with that.

[Bill the Cat]

Have you ever heard of the word "likely"? During the Cold War lots of efforts were made to change people's opinions. How would you prove in a singe instance that a particular person held a particular view because of the manipulation the KGB? Not so easy because you cannot prove they would not have held the opinion anyway. Would that lead you to the conclusion that anyone who believes the manipulation actually did work in some cases is in idiot? The idea that not a single vote was changed seems to be what you hold on to, but for what reason? Can you prove it? If not then why do you hold on to it so strongly?

We are manipulated every day, Charles. At every corner. Millions of dollars are being spent to tell you what to wear, what to say, and how to say it. Information isn't illegal.

[Mountain Man]

The liberal media's attempts to influence the election in Hillary's favor likely had a greater impact than anything Russia supposedly did.

[Cow Poke]

Unless he has evidence that Russia changed a single vote, he's an idiot and his suspicions are conspiracy theory level garbage...

You can remove everything before the comma, and the rest is still true.

[oxmixmudd]

Unless he has evidence that Russia changed a single vote, he's an idiot and his suspicions are conspiracy theory level garbage...

That is ignorance. They engaged in a massive dis-information campaign. To believe not one person was pushed or encouraged in Trumps direction in some way that created 1 more vote for Trump than would have existed without it is TRULY ignorant.


Jim

[Charles]

We are manipulated every day, Charles. At every corner. Millions of dollars are being spent to tell you what to wear, what to say, and how to say it. Information isn't illegal.

And you believe no ones mind is changed or only changed on all other areas then election? If not the why is Clapper wrong in assuming influence campaigns actually do influence?

[Sparko]

so you are saying that were it not for Russia, all of us conservatives would have voted for Hillary?

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Hillary is the one who swung the election. Just by being Hillary. Even a large portion of the democrats didn't want her in office after the nonsense she pulled off with the Email server, cheating Sanders out of the nomination by controlling the DNC, getting the questions for the debates up front, Benghazi, her failing health, etc.

We all had a choice of Nope and Noper and Hillary was definitely Noper. The Russians had nothing to do with it. In fact, having seen some of their "influence" when facebook posted some of them, it was nothing more than poorly worded memes.