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In Democratic circles, anti-Semitism is becoming normal

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  • #91
    I've read through the bulk of this thread. I have to admit it saddens me. First, frankly, I had expected more from you, CP, than another attempt to paint Socialists (and then the thread turned to Democrats) as "them" so they can simply be hated. And to accuse the entire party of antisemitism is as wrong as accusing the entire Republican party of being Nazi's. What was said years ago does not change the fact that we have many predominantly socialist nations today (Denmark, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway, the Netherlands) where antisemitism is not an aspect of the national value system, and antisemitism is comparatively rare, several of which appear on the list of least antisemitic countries.

    The situation in Israel and the Middle East is a difficult one. There are points to be made for both sides - and compromise is illusive because it requires both sides to give up something very precious to them - which neither side has shown a willingness to do. Then you have the hard-line extremists in both groups: the Israeli extremists who want an end to Palestine and uncontested national, ethnic, theocratic sovereignty; and the Muslims who want and end to the incursion of Israel into lands that they occupied before the resettlement. To call Muslims who advocate for such positions to account for their hatred and bigotry is not being anti-Islam. To call Israelis who who advocate for such positions to account for their hatred and bigotry is not being antisemitic.

    I have no position on a one-state or two-state solution for the simple reason that this is not my home and not my place to dictate how they should fix their problem. I think the proper role of the rest of the world is to do what one would do in a neighborhood with feuding neighbors: advocate for peace, offer to help mediate meetings to discuss solutions, and stand fast against acts of hatred and violence. But the solution needs to be arrived at by them.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      I've read through the bulk of this thread. I have to admit it saddens me. First, frankly, I had expected more from you, CP,...
      Well, yeah, and I'm saddened that you fall for the "Trump called Russia to hack" nonsense. So let's get together and cry in our beer.

      And thanks for using me as a launching pad to expand into junk I never claimed.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I don't think that anyone ever disagreed that the Dome of the Rock is important to Muslims.
        Yes, and the reason for the Dome of the Rock's great significance for Muslims derives from traditions connecting it to the creation of the world and to the belief that the Prophet Muhammad's Night Journey to heaven started from the rock at the center of the structure. So, as opposed to CP's claim that “the Muslims suddenly have an interest in Jerusalem" the building of the Dome of the Rock and the Aqsa mosque dates back to the reign of ‘Abd al-Malik (685-705). Muslims have demonstrated the importance of Jerusalem to the world for centuries. ..
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          Its just immaterial to me whether Tassman is right or not about the Muslims beliefs, or whether the Muslims are right or not to consider Al-aqsa special, or the point where Muhammed visited Heaven. Whether any of that is true or not wouldn't change the importance the Dome of the Rock holds for Muslims across the world. And I'm glad Israel had the wisdom to preserve it.

          If anything that show how civilized Israel can be and how well functioning and calm headed they have the capacity to act.
          The Muslims do hold al-aqsa to be special and Tassman is correct that Muslims consider Jerusalem to be where it is, but the fact remains that this association came later, was rejected in earlier times and can not be correct in any case.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            Yes, and the reason for the Dome of the Rock's great significance for Muslims derives from traditions connecting it to the creation of the world and to the belief that the Prophet Muhammad's Night Journey to heaven started from the rock at the center of the structure. So, as opposed to CP's claim that “the Muslims suddenly have an interest in Jerusalem" the building of the Dome of the Rock and the Aqsa mosque dates back to the reign of ‘Abd al-Malik (685-705). Muslims have demonstrated the importance of Jerusalem to the world for centuries. ..
            They built a mosque in literally every large city they conquered but the fact remains that it was not originally associated with Muhammad's "Night Journey" and the evidence demonstrates that Jerusalem couldn't have been its destination

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              First, frankly, I had expected more from you, CP, than another attempt to paint Socialists (and then the thread turned to Democrats) as "them" so they can simply be hated.
              Hate? That's not how CP rolls.
              And to accuse the entire party of antisemitism is as wrong as accusing the entire Republican party of being Nazi's.
              CP didn't do that, either.
              Last edited by One Bad Pig; 12-07-2018, 08:34 AM.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Hate? That's now how CP rolls.
                Typo I hope.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Typo I hope.






































                  I hate when I do that. It's like my fingers skip to the next word I'm thinking of, and a letter from that word jumps into the word I'm currently typing. And I don't catch it, because I know what I intended to type.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Well, yeah, and I'm saddened that you fall for the "Trump called Russia to hack" nonsense. So let's get together and cry in our beer.

                    And thanks for using me as a launching pad to expand into junk I never claimed.
                    I'm trying to find a place (other than the opening comment about "themism") where I said that any of the rest of my post was anything you "claimed?"
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Hate? That's not how CP rolls.

                      CP didn't do that, either.
                      I suggest you reread the quoted article, and note the various places where "Democrats" and "lefties" and ""Liberals" (the latter in subsequent posts) are used over-archingly and far too broadly. As I have said several times in the past (and yes, I have failed myself on this), such broad-brush depictions are an encouragement to think of entire groups as "other" and dismiss them with one stroke, as if they spoke with one voice.

                      And when we contribute to a dynamic that promotes hatred - we contribute to the hatred. We each have to take responsibility for that, or things will simply never change.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I suggest you reread the quoted article, and note the various places where "Democrats" and "lefties" and ""Liberals" (the latter in subsequent posts) are used over-archingly and far too broadly. As I have said several times in the past (and yes, I have failed myself on this), such broad-brush depictions are an encouragement to think of entire groups as "other" and dismiss them with one stroke, as if they spoke with one voice.

                        And when we contribute to a dynamic that promotes hatred - we contribute to the hatred. We each have to take responsibility for that, or things will simply never change.
                        Okay, I've re-read the article. Yours is a rather weak attempt at a dodge, I'm sorry to say. I fail to see where it attempts to attach anti-Semitism to Democrats in general, any sort of insinuation that the left (or even socialism) speaks with one voice, or any incitement to hatred. I also fail to see any attempt on your part to address the actual point of the article, other than an attempt to dismiss it as broad-brush hatred. Perhaps look into the mirror before you post.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          I suggest you reread the quoted article, and note the various places where "Democrats" and "lefties" and ""Liberals" (the latter in subsequent posts) are used over-archingly and far too broadly. As I have said several times in the past (and yes, I have failed myself on this), such broad-brush depictions are an encouragement to think of entire groups as "other" and dismiss them with one stroke, as if they spoke with one voice.

                          And when we contribute to a dynamic that promotes hatred - we contribute to the hatred. We each have to take responsibility for that, or things will simply never change.
                          You need to stop being so overly sensitive.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            You need to stop being so overly sensitive.
                            Nah...I like my sensitivity right where it is. The world needs more sensitive guys.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Okay, I've re-read the article. Yours is a rather weak attempt at a dodge, I'm sorry to say. I fail to see where it attempts to attach anti-Semitism to Democrats in general, any sort of insinuation that the left (or even socialism) speaks with one voice, or any incitement to hatred. I also fail to see any attempt on your part to address the actual point of the article, other than an attempt to dismiss it as broad-brush hatred. Perhaps look into the mirror before you post.
                              I just did - and I can report I am as handsome as ever!

                              Now - to the points. Let's just start with the title shall we? "In Democratic circles, anti-Semitism is becoming normal." It doesn't say "some" Democratic circles. It simply says "Democratic circles." That is an all-encompassing statement to paint Democrats in a pejorative light - ergo, painting them as "other."

                              Then we have statements like, "The truth is that unfettered socialism, though based primarily on a demand for the abolition of private property, always comes riding on a current of anti-Semitism." I have no idea what the author means by "unfettered," everything is fettered to some degree. But we have numerous examples of socialist states today that are along the lowest ranked of "anti-Semitic" states. So the statement, claiming "all," is simply untrue and again is all-sweeping.

                              The article then goes on to conflate taking a stand against some of the immoral practices Israel has engaged in with antisemitism. Consider this statement:

                              We can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM. ‘That country has mobilized its Diaspora in America to do its bidding in America.


                              It is cited as an example of antisemitic language. But if the same statement were made of Russia or China, would we consider it "anti-Chinese" and "anti-Russian?" Would this statement be a disparagement of the people of those countries, or a criticism of the economic policies of those countries? I suspect the latter. So why is it being treated differently because it is Israel?

                              And anyone with a modicum of understanding of the history of Resolution 181 (also known as the Partition Resolution) can grasp that the creation of the Jewish state necessarily displaced the existing Palestinian population. To them, it appears as an occupation, and has for 71 years now. A state was carved out of a region where that state had not previously existed. To do so, land already part of existing states was essentially taken by UN decree in an attempt to right an injustice. I am not arguing that it should not have happened - bu I AM arguing that the response of Palestine is pretty understandable. Indeed, we see a similar thing recreated in the U.S. anytime the U.S. government "seizes land" by designating it a national park or protected area. I do not understand how people who can be so outraged by such an action cannot understand why the Palestinians would have been equally outraged to have an outside agency simply "declare" that a significant part of their state was to be forfeit. I have to wonder, if you owned a ranch and over the course of 70+ years, this is what happened...

                              MSNBC_Map_Cropped.jpg

                              ...wouldn't you be a bit upset? The map comes from this source.

                              I don't know what could have been done to make things smoother - but i think we should have some sympathy and empathy for both sides of this situation, while rejecting some of the horrific things that have been done as a result.

                              And holding that position does NOT make me antisemitic.

                              Finally, the closing paragraph starts with, "Donald Trump’s gospel of ‘principled realism,’ his gentle and patriotic version of broad-church, America-first nationalism, offers a healing alternative." Anyone who can write those words and be serious about them is so divorced from reality, or so amazingly hypnotized by Trump, that it is difficult to know how even to respond. Gentle? Patriotic? Healing? Trump is none of the above. And Trump's gospel? OMG. Jesus of Nazareth must be rolling over in his grave.

                              This article is the writing of a Trump sycophant. I am amazed that CP found any part of it to be even worthy of referencing.
                              Last edited by carpedm9587; 12-31-2018, 08:56 PM.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • More leftist anti-antisemitism...
                                ==============
                                Leftists Target Their Own: Leftist Jewish Cafe Owner In SF Told To Get Out For Supporting Israel


                                You can be gay, intern in the Obama White House, work on Barack Obama’s reelection campaign, and serve as the Silicon Valley fundraising director for the Clinton presidential campaign in 2016, but if you also happen to be Jewish and support the existence of Israel, hard leftists want you gone, as 29-year-old Manny Yekutiel found out the hard way when he opened a café/bookstore in San Francisco’s Mission District

                                Yekutiel was catalyzed to open his café/bookstore, which also hosts leftist political events, after the 2016 election. He said it took two years to create it, asserting, “Over 1,000 people were involved in the building of this space.” Among the people he has hosted have been incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, San Francisco Mayor London Breed, and activists with Black Lives Matter, according to The Forward. According to Eater, donors gave over $75,000 to the project on Kickstarter. Yekutiel pointed out that the idea of a café with political events was not new, saying, “For centuries there have been certain cafes, bars, and restaurants that have doubled as spaces for civic engagement, social justice, and activism, places to consume, react, and create the news.”

                                But on Wednesday, protesters associated with the Lucy Parsons Project, a self-described “radical black queer direction action group,” joined other groups to yell Yekutiel was a “Zionist gentrifer,” and “Zionists out of the Mission!” The Lucy Parsons Project even tweeted their instructions to do so:

                                The Forward reports that the group “has protested at Manny’s every Wednesday this month, and says it will continue protesting every Wednesday until Manny’s is ‘shut down.’ The Project only has about 300 Twitter followers, but among the protest’s supporters is a local rapper, Equipto, with 14,500 followers.”

                                Equipto had tweeted, “Tonite & every Wednesday at 6:30 pm. 3092 16th st & Valencia.The people are boycotting Manny’s cafe. A proud zionist & gentrifier has come into the Mission district. Please read the literature to fully understand why folks have organized. #BoycottMannys #SaveFrisco #FreePalestine.”



                                https://www.dailywire.com/news/39751...mpaign=crowder

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