Originally posted by JimL
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In Democratic circles, anti-Semitism is becoming normal
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostGiven, as you outline, Muslim peoples have tended to be pretty nasty toward Jewish people, why would you think a good solution is to put a Jewish nation literally smack-bang in the middle of the Muslim world and surrounded by Muslim nations?
Jews would be much better off living in the US where they aren't surrounded by their enemies than living in the Middle East surrounded by Muslims.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostDid you know that Mark Twain visited the Middle East some 150 years ago and noted what many others both before and after him have described -- that nearly all of what constitutes modern Israel was uninhabited except for when Bedouin nomads happened to pass through it?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostBut suddenly AFTER the establishment of the nation of Israel, a nonexistent (until then) people suddenly found that they had a home land there.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostDid you know that Mark Twain visited the Middle East some 150 years ago and noted what many others both before and after him have described -- that nearly all of what constitutes modern Israel was uninhabited except for when Bedouin nomads happened to pass through it?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd the Muslims suddenly have an interest in Jerusalem even though it is never mentioned in the Quran. (Though, a local Muslim explained to me that Jerusalem really IS in the Quran because a number of prophets in the Quran had "links" there. )
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd the Muslims suddenly have an interest in Jerusalem even though it is never mentioned in the Quran.
With the completion of the Dome of the Rock and the Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount in the reign of ‘Abd al-Malik (685-705), Muslims demonstrated the importance of Jerusalem to the world...
One possible sign as to why Jerusalem was important to the first Muslims is found in the episode of the change in the direction of prayer (qibla) of the early Muslims in the second year of their move to Medina. Muslims famously face Mecca when at prayer. But it wasn’t always so.
The Qur’an alludes to this when it tells us that Muhammad’s detractors asked: “What made them turn away from the qibla that they used to face?” (2:142). The original qibla is not specified in the Qur’an, but biographers of Muhammad give us a second clue when they make the claim that “Jerusalem was the first qibla of the Muslims.” They do not discuss why Jerusalem served this function, but it is in any case an unambiguous declaration of the high status of the city in the eyes of Muhammad and his first followers.
Muslim interest in Jerusalem goes back to at least ~700AD when they build the Dome of the Rock mosque there. It was not something invented after the modern state of Israel was created."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt does seem to be a bizarre point of faith among conservatives that the land was uninhabited. This absurd claim appears to allow them to willfully ignore all the Palestinians pushed out of the area by the creation of Israel and who are now trapped in the Gaza strip or forced out of the area as refugees.
First, most left after being told to by the surrounding Muslim leaders who told them to leave for their own safety and return after they butchered all the Jews.
Second, the fact that there are today some 1.413 million Muslim residents in Israel (nearly 20% of Israel's population) puts the lie to your claim that they were all forced to leave.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTwain could hardly be called a conservative and was even an atheist (had no dog in that fight). And as I noted, his testimony is confirmed by several others both before and after his time.
And your "pushed out of the area by the creation of Israel" is rubbish.
First, most left (!!!) after being told to by the surrounding Muslim leaders who told them to leave for their own safety and return after they butchered all the Jews.
Second, the fact that there are today some 1.413 million Muslim residents in Israel (nearly 20% of Israel's population) puts the lie to your claim that they were all forced to leave.
Can you please pick one claim and stick to it?
(a) There was basically nobody there prior to ~1948, as per your Twain claim.
(b) There was some Muslims there but they left around 1948 when instructed to by other Muslims.
(c) They didn't leave and 1.4+ million Muslims live in Israel.
Were the Arabs never there, did they leave after the creation of Israel, or are they still there?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostIf I'm remembering right Al Aqsa is mentioned in the Quran, and is thought by Muslims to be the Temple in Jerusalem.
But Al Aqsa means the "farthest mosque" and there was no mosque in Jerusalem in Muhammad's time. Scholars estimate that the mention of the night journey in the qur'an and hadiths would have taken place around 621 A.D. but the mosque wouldn't be built for over eighty years -- in 705 A.D.
Recently some have started translating Al Aqsa as the "farthest location" but this seems designed to overcome the reality that there were no mosques in Jerusalem in Muhammad's lifetime and tries to gloss over the literal translation which is given as the "farthest mosque."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI'm not calling Twain a conservative. I'm saying conservatives like yourself seem to have a strange desire to cherry-pick historical sources as evidence for your bonkers view that there were not Muslims living in the area prior to the creation of the modern state of Israel in that area. A view you promptly go on to disprove in the remainder of your post...
The 1947 UN decision to create a state of Israel in the area wanted to split Palestine into two nations with the Jews living in one and the Arabs living in the other. The idea was indeed to move the Arabs out of the immediate area of Israel and over into the other part of Palestine.
You were claiming there weren't Arabs living in the area at the founding of Israel. And now you're saying there were but most subsequently left. Try keeping your crazy theories straight for the duration of at least a single post please.
!!! So now you say they didn't leave?
Can you please pick one claim and stick to it?
(a) There was basically nobody there prior to ~1948, as per your Twain claim.
(b) There was some Muslims there but they left around 1948 when instructed to by other Muslims.
(c) They didn't leave and 1.4+ million Muslims live in Israel.
Were the Arabs never there, did they leave after the creation of Israel, or are they still there?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostMuslim interest in Jerusalem goes back to at least ~700AD when they build the Dome of the Rock mosque there.
It was not something invented after the modern state of Israel was created.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMy brother did an outstanding job responding to this.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYou "sound" surprised.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWhat he did was make completely false statements revealing an abysmal ignorance of the subject. Claiming that patriotism and nationalism are polar opposites is mind-numbingly stupid on his part and it makes not a whit of difference that he was referencing Trump since that won't magically change the irrefutable fact that claiming that nationalism and patriotism are polar opposites reveals a weapon's grade level of stupidity on his part (as anyone with access to a dictionary or thesaurus can attest)
For example:
- Dictionary.com: Nationalism: 1. spirit or aspirations common to the whole of a nation.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own country; patriotism.
3. excessive patriotism; chauvinism. - YourDictionary as well as Collins Dictionary: nationalism:1. a. devotion to one's nation; patriotism
2. b. excessive, narrow, or jingoist patriotism; chauvinism
3. the doctrine that national interest, security, etc. are more important than international considerations
4. the desire for or advocacy of national independence
Several dictionaries list "patriotism" as a synonym for "nationalism"
[BWhile it may be argued that nationalism is better described as an extreme form of patriotism (and note that is one of the definitions provided), it is, nevertheless, still a form of patriotism and hence it is foolish to pretend that they are complete opposites as Marcon declared.
Again, if Trump had made such a ridiculous claim the MSM would have spent days lambasting him for his latest "lie."
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- Dictionary.com: Nationalism:
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