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Philosophy 201 Guidelines

Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    Of course that is true, no one thinks that it was inevitable, no one thinks that earth had to have the conditions necessary for life.
    Again, again, again, again 'had to have' has absolutely nothing to with the discussion when we are addressing the science of abiogenesis and evolution. The Laws of Nature determine whether there is an environment, and when there is a suitable environment on a planet anywhere in the universe there will be abiogenesis and the evolution of life.



    Good so you agree that there was randomness in our evolutionary history...

    Absolutely NO!
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

      Absolutely NO!
      Of course there was no randomness because God created us and He doesn't do random. I'm so glad we agree.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        Of course there was no randomness because God created us and He doesn't do random. I'm so glad we agree.
        Correct in terms of the belief we share concerning God, but denying the objective verifiable evidence that falsifies beyond a reasonable doubt that science, including the sciences of abiogenesis and evolution are based on God's attributes of Creation.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Of course there was no randomness because God created us and He doesn't do random. I'm so glad we agree.
          This is a faith-belief only which, unlike science, is unsupported by objective verifiable falsifiable evidence.
          Last edited by Tassman; 03-13-2019, 12:01 AM.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Correct in terms of the belief we share concerning God, but denying the objective verifiable evidence that falsifies beyond a reasonable doubt that science, including the sciences of abiogenesis and evolution are based on God's attributes of Creation.
            The point is Shuny, there is no randomness, God created and ordered it all. Nature did not do this, God did...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              The point is Shuny, there is no randomness, God created and ordered it all. Nature did not do this, God did...
              If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?
                The point is there is no randomness because God is involved and directing it. Which we both agree on...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  The point is there is no randomness because God is involved and directing it. Which we both agree on...
                  Does not answer the question: If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?

                  By the evidence 'chance' nor 'randomness' do not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature. They are only awkward terms that are used to describe the variation of the outcome of events in nature.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-16-2019, 10:20 AM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Does not answer the question: If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?

                    By the evidence 'chance' nor 'randomness' do not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature. They are only awkward terms that are used to describe the variation of the outcome of events in nature.
                    Because with out God how do you escape randomness? And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Because with out God how do you escape randomness?
                      Evolution is not random. The survival and reproductive success of a living organism is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Natural selection events may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all.

                      And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
                      No he didn't. There is no substantive evidence for this assertion.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        No he didn't. There is no substantive evidence for this assertion.
                        But that is what both Shuny and I believe, and I was talking to him...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Because with out God how do you escape randomness? And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
                          I am basing this on objective verifiable evidence, and regardless of whether God exists or not there is absolutely no evidence the chance nor randomness has any influence concerning the natural course of cause and effect outcomes.

                          I gave specific English definitions to randomness, and it only applies to single events, and not the outcomes of chains of cause and effect outcomes of natural processes.

                          Your trying to play two sides of an argument to justify your agenda, and ignoring the matter of fact evidence.
                          Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-17-2019, 01:18 PM.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            I am basing this on objective verifiable evidence, and regardless of whether God exists or not there is absolutely no evidence the chance nor randomness has any influence concerning the natural course of cause and effect outcomes.
                            How do you know that there would not be randomness without God since God is involved. The fact is Shuny, you have no idea what nature would or would not act like without God because we don't have such a universe.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              How do you know that there would not be randomness without God since God is involved. The fact is Shuny, you have no idea what nature would or would not act like without God because we don't have such a universe.
                              The objective verifiable evidence of the Laws of Nature, natural environments and natural processes, and the definition of 'chance' and 'randomness' determine that 'chance' and 'randomness' only apply to the outcome of individual events.

                              We both believe that randomness does not cause anything in God's Creation and the evidence supports this. Unfortunately for you, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that abiogenesis and evolution is God's method of Creation of life, and not chance nor randomness.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                We both believe that randomness does not cause anything in God's Creation and the evidence supports this. Unfortunately for you, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that abiogenesis and evolution is God's method of Creation of life, and not chance nor randomness.
                                The point is Shuny, since we both know that God created and directed the process (whether it is evolutionary or not) we have no idea if nature, without the direction of God, could create the universe and life as we see it today.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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