Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

[Tassman]

yep. but we were discussing "what the bible said about Jesus" such as being the messiah and doing miracles.

That doesn’t equate to 95% of humanity believing that, as you claimed.

so? they also believe Jesus was one such incarnation and was divine and did miracles as described in the bible.

Only inasmuch as ALL gods are believed by Hindus to be manifestations of one abstract supreme being, not particularly the biblical Jesus. There is a profound indifference among Hindus and Buddhists regarding the “god/man” of the Christian bible.

They believe more than that. They believe he was the Messiah. They also believe he did all the stuff described in the bible.

Muslims don’t believe Jesus was the son of God, merely revere him as a holy prophet.

I take that claim back then. I thought you had argued that Jesus was a myth and never existed.

Nope. The man Jesus probably existed, not the god/man

[Sparko]

That doesn’t equate to 95% of humanity believing that, as you claimed.

it was hyperbole. "most of humanity" then. happy?

Only inasmuch as ALL gods are believed by Hindus to be manifestations of one abstract supreme being, not particularly the biblical Jesus. There is a profound indifference among Hindus and Buddhists regarding the “god/man” of the Christian bible.

that wasn't the claim by JimL. he just said that except for Christians nobody believed in the Jesus as described in the bible. Muslims do, Hindus do, Christians do, Baha'i do, Mormons do. Buddhists do.

Muslims don’t believe Jesus was the son of God, merely revere him as a holy prophet.

Jiml's claim said nothing about Jesus being God. And the Muslims do believe he was the Messiah, the Christ, not just a prophet.

[Tassman]

it was hyperbole. "most of humanity" then. happy?

It was simply an inaccurate statement. "Most of humanity" does not believe in the god/man of the bible.

that wasn't the claim by JimL. he just said that except for Christians nobody believed in the Jesus as described in the bible.

What JimL was referring to, I'm sure, was the miracle-working, bodily-resurrecting figure as described in the bible.

Muslims do, Hindus do, Christians do, Baha'i do, Mormons do. Buddhists do.

Only Christians believe in Jesus the god/man.

And the Muslims do believe he was the Messiah, the Christ, not just a prophet.

No, in Islam, Jesus is believed to have been a holy prophet and the precursor to the greatest prophet Muhammad. He was not the Messiah, as understood by Christians.

[Sparko]

It was simply an inaccurate statement. "Most of humanity" does not believe in the god/man of the bible.



What JimL was referring to, I'm sure, was the miracle-working, bodily-resurrecting figure as described in the bible.



Only Christians believe in Jesus the god/man.



No, in Islam, Jesus is believed to have been a holy prophet and the precursor to the greatest prophet Muhammad. He was not the Messiah, as understood by Christians.

No, in Islam they believe Jesus was born of a virgin, was the Messiah, and did miracles. They don't believe he was God and don't think he was crucified. but as far as Jesus is described in the gospels besides those two point, they agree with how Jesus was described in the bible, Which is what JimL was claiming was not the case. I love how you guys keep moving the goal posts to keep from admitting your errors. It makes you look petty, like you just can't admit you were wrong about something.

[Tassman]

No, in Islam they believe Jesus was born of a virgin, was the Messiah, and did miracles. They don't believe he was God and don't think he was crucified. but as far as Jesus is described in the gospels besides those two point, they agree with how Jesus was described in the bible, Which is what JimL was claiming was not the case. I love how you guys keep moving the goal posts to keep from admitting your errors. It makes you look petty, like you just can't admit you were wrong about something.

Sorry, but it is you who is wrong. What both JimL and I are saying is that the Jesus of the gospels is not believed by 95% of the population as you claimed. Even where there are some similarities as per the Muslims the core features of the gospels as believed by Christians are absent. Notably, Jesus’ resurrection from the dead and his status as a god/man. The latter would be abhorrent to Muslims, who believe there is no god but Allah.

[Roy]

yep. but we were discussing "what the bible said about Jesus" such as being the messiah and doing miracles.

That doesn’t equate to 95% of humanity believing that, as you claimed.

it was hyperbole. "most of humanity" then. happy?

Not even "most of humanity". Only about 33% of humanity thinks Jesus was the Messiah.

And the Muslims do believe he was the Messiah, the Christ, not just a prophet.

Muslims do believe Jesus was just a prophet. While they call him "Messiah", they don't mean what Christians do.

[JohnHermes]

Where do you draw the line between the material and immaterial. If the "mind' exist, it can obviously exist beyond thought or emotion. Does an infant posses a mind? At that age there's not even the concept of "I". As modern science proves that everything is energy. String vibrations of waves that can take particle form. Yet in essence it's energy still. The mind if anything is something metaphysical. It'll take something metaphysical to see something metaphysical to some degree. For we know that's not true when it come to seeing x-rays or hearing sounds beyond our senses limited to certain frequencies.

[Sparko]

Sorry, but it is you who is wrong. What both JimL and I are saying is that the Jesus of the gospels is not believed by 95% of the population as you claimed. Even where there are some similarities as per the Muslims the core features of the gospels as believed by Christians are absent. Notably, Jesus’ resurrection from the dead and his status as a god/man. The latter would be abhorrent to Muslims, who believe there is no god but Allah.

Sure move those goal posts!!!!

[Tassman]

Sure move those goal posts!!!!

Nope!

The goal posts remain the same, namely your demonstrably false claim that "the Jesus of the gospels is believed by 95% of the world's population".

[Sparko]

Nope!

The goal posts remain the same, namely your demonstrably false claim that "the Jesus of the gospels is believed by 95% of the world's population".

I already said that was hyperbole. The initial claim was that

Many, I would say most, non-christians or archeologists believe that the Jesus as depicted in the bible is a myth, Sparko. The naive do believe it though.

Clearly that is not true. Sure there are aspects they may not believe (like him being God) but on the whole most non-christians believe the Jesus as depicted in the bible. They do not believe Jesus was a myth.

THOSE were the "goal posts" Tassy.

[Tassman]

I already said that was hyperbole. The initial claim was that



Clearly that is not true. Sure there are aspects they may not believe (like him being God) but on the whole most non-christians believe the Jesus as depicted in the bible. They do not believe Jesus was a myth.

THOSE were the "goal posts" Tassy.

Your “goal-posts” are wrong, this is the point. Most non-Christians believe the ‘core aspects’ of the Jesus story as depicted in the bible…specifically the god/man & bodily resurrection…are ‘myth’ or ‘fiction’.

[Sparko]

Your “goal-posts” are wrong, this is the point. Most non-Christians believe the ‘core aspects’ of the Jesus story as depicted in the bible…specifically the god/man & bodily resurrection…are ‘myth’ or ‘fiction’.

You can just keep moving the goal posts all you want. I was responding to what JimL said, which I quoted:

JimL: Many, I would say most, non-christians or archeologists believe that the Jesus as depicted in the bible is a myth, Sparko. The naive do believe it though.

[Tassman]

You can just keep moving the goal posts all you want. I was responding to what JimL said, which I quoted:

JimL: Many, I would say most, non-christians or archeologists believe that the Jesus as depicted in the bible is a myth, Sparko. The naive do believe it though.

You are the only one moving goal-posts. What Jim said was correct, i.e.: “most non-Christians or archaeologists believe that the Jesus as depicted in the bible is a myth”. This is referring to several core elements of Christianity as depicted in the bible, in particular Jesus’ alleged bodily resurrection.

[Sparko]

You are the only one moving goal-posts. What Jim said was correct, i.e.: “most non-Christians or archaeologists believe that the Jesus as depicted in the bible is a myth”. This is referring to several core elements of Christianity as depicted in the bible, in particular Jesus’ alleged bodily resurrection.

"as depicted in the bible" covers a heck of a lot more than Jesus being resurrected. And we were discussing people thinking Jesus was just a myth and not existing. Try to keep up. I realize you have a problem with just admitting you are wrong, as does JimL and want to keep moving those goal posts to save face, but anyone reading this thread can see what was being discussed.

[Tassman]

"as depicted in the bible" covers a heck of a lot more than Jesus being resurrected. And we were discussing people thinking Jesus was just a myth and not existing. Try to keep up. I realize you have a problem with just admitting you are wrong, as does JimL and want to keep moving those goal posts to save face, but anyone reading this thread can see what was being discussed.

No, what we were discussing was your incorrect claim that 95% of people (later amended to a majority of people) believed in Jesus as depicted in the bible. This is not so. Whilst many people of all faiths (and none) accept that a charismatic, nomadic preacher/healer called Jesus possibly existed, the vast majority do not believe the ‘magic bits’ as “depicted in the bible” that form the core beliefs of the Christian religion. You are wrong when you claim they do, as several people have pointed out.