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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

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  • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
    I'm sorry....we created computers (and I include all components of programs thereof). It did not come out as a result of accidents of nature.
    I think you're taking his lighthearted joke about software development/programming essentially being an endeavor in blindly fumbling around in the dark a bit too seriously.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      I think you're taking his lighthearted joke about software development/programming essentially being an endeavor in blindly fumbling around in the dark a bit too seriously.
      All right....I'm not at all good at picking up jokes and sarcasm. I'm very sorry.
      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

      Comment


      • Why can't it be immaterial? Gravity is immaterial..I guess that doesn't exist either(According to some "logic" in here). So there's some magical unexplained scientific thing out there holding us down, but no immaterial doesn't' exist, especially the mind! That's LUDICROUS!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JohnHermes View Post
          Why can't it be immaterial? Gravity is immaterial..I guess that doesn't exist either(According to some "logic" in here). So there's some magical unexplained scientific thing out there holding us down, but no immaterial doesn't' exist, especially the mind! That's LUDICROUS!
          OI! Don't start bringing logic into TWeb debates - you risk starting a trend.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • DesertBerean Computers are created based on nature's laws(especially based on the human body) All we did was "mimick" it into something totally new.

            COMPUTER PARTS COMPARED TO HUMAN BODY
            NERVOUS SYSTEM – Motherboard
            All computer parts are connected to each other on the motherboard. All electrical signals are
            conducted through it. Without a motherboard, all other components are lifeless.
            HARD DRIVE = BRAIN – Subconscious
            All knowledge of programs, files and data is stored on the Hard Drive. Just like the brain, it is
            sectioned off for various purposes. The hard drive stores and retrieves all of our precious
            information and programs for use by use whenever we wish. Just like our long term memories.
            CPU CHIP = SPINAL CORD – (Central Processing Unit)
            A chip that is on the Motherboard that is responsible for processing instructions (commands)
            received from hard drive (brain). It controls every activities of the computer. Just like the spinal
            cord, it receives instructions from the brain (hard drive).
            RAM - Random Access Memory = BRAIN – conscious thought
            RAM is a holding area of files and instructions that are to be used and then forgotten about. It
            allows the computer to multi-task just as your brain’s conscious thought allows you to multitask. The more RAM, the better your computer can multi-task, and the faster it will perform.
            SPEAKER / PRINTER = MOUTH
            Both are output devices. They produce what the computer needs to give out.
            MOUSE / KEYBOARD = HANDS
            Both are input devices. They are used to send in instructions and information into and out of
            the computer.
            WEB CAM = EYES
            Web cam detect light and send signals through the optic lens to the visual and the computer to
            the CPU. Just exactly like how the eyes works sending visual signals to the brain through optic
            nerves.
            MICROPHONE = EARS
            Microphone receives sound waves and sends it into the computer for processing
            MONITOR = FACE
            This is an output device. It has a screen which it uses to display what the computer is doing or
            how it feels. Just like the human face shows different expressions.
            SYSTEM CASE = SKIN
            This gives the computer a definite shape. It defines a computer telling us more about it, how it
            responds to the conditions around. Same implies the human skin, it defines the human body.

            Comment


            • JohnHermes, as I understand it, your original focus was on the mechanics of the mind/body interaction? I don't really follow the ideas on this subject; as a Christian I believe God created us in His image and thus are distinct from the rest of creation in our makeup.

              Tassman was trying to liken us to computers undergoing the natural selection process. Which makes absolutely no sense despite the fact that programs may seem to take on a life of their own! (Again, apologies to tabibito for taking his comments far too seriously) . Computers were no product of random coming together of molecules. He needs to try again.
              Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                JohnHermes, as I understand it, your original focus was on the mechanics of the mind/body interaction? I don't really follow the ideas on this subject; as a Christian I believe God created us in His image and thus are distinct from the rest of creation in our makeup.

                Tassman was trying to liken us to computers undergoing the natural selection process. Which makes absolutely no sense despite the fact that programs may seem to take on a life of their own! (Again, apologies to tabibito for taking his comments far too seriously) . Computers were no product of random coming together of molecules. He needs to try again.
                Neither are humans a product of random coming together of molecules, nor is anything else in nature. The process of the evolution of life is not the random coming together of molecules. The cause of evolution is the Laws of Nature, and the natural environment of the earth.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-03-2019, 02:55 PM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Neither are humans a product of random coming together of molecules, nor is anything else in nature. The process of the evolution of life is not the random coming together of molecules. The cause of evolution is the Laws of Nature, and the natural environment of the earth.
                  Of course it is. Are you saying that we HAD to evolve as we did? Or even come into being in the first place?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Of course it is. Are you saying that we HAD to evolve as we did? Or even come into being in the first place?
                    OF course not according the scientific view did we have to evolve the way we did. but evolution is not random. Nonetheless randomness nor chance do not have any effect on the outcome. Randomness and chance are simply a layman's non-scientific view of the outcome of cause and effect events when the causes are unknown.

                    The possible different outcomes in evolution are determined and limited by the Laws of Nature and the natural environment.

                    Saying the 'random coming together of molecules,' is a problem, because again, the Laws of Nature and the natural environment determine the possible variation in the outcome of natural events.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-03-2019, 05:22 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      OF course not according the scientific view did we have to evolve the way we did. but evolution is not random. Nonetheless randomness nor chance do not have any effect on the outcome. Randomness and chance are simply a layman's non-scientific view of the outcome of cause and effect events when the causes are unknown.

                      The possible different outcomes in evolution are determined and limited by the Laws of Nature and the natural environment.

                      Saying the 'random coming together of molecules,' is a problem, because again, the Laws of Nature and the natural environment determine the possible variation in the outcome of natural events.
                      That makes no sense, because if we did not have to evolve as we did, or at all, then there is randomness involved. And why is there a evolutionary process at all? Did that have to happen?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        That makes no sense, because if we did not have to evolve as we did, or at all, then there is randomness involved. And why is there a evolutionary process at all? Did that have to happen?
                        No randomness by definition
                        Source: 'https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/random


                        random
                        adjective US ​ /ˈrćn·dəm/

                        happening, done, or chosen by chance rather than according to a plan or pattern:

                        © Copyright Original Source



                        Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

                        Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events.[1] A random sequence of events, symbols or steps has no order and does not follow an intelligible pattern or combination. Individual random events are by definition unpredictable, but in many cases the frequency of different outcomes over a large number of events (or "trials") is predictable.

                        © Copyright Original Source



                        Evolution takes place by pattern according to the Laws of Nature and the natural environment, and not randomly. Evolution does follow an intelligible pattern. It is possible that our evolution was limited by the laws of nature and environment, as Einstein said, " . . the dice are loaded."

                        The problem here is you have a layman's religious agenda using layman;s terminology, and still looking for rabbits in the Cambrian rocks based on your assertion that the possibilities in evolution are random.

                        The evolution of humanity follows a predictable pattern based on the environment of the history of primates. Could there been a different outcome? We do not know.

                        By definition the outcome of an event may be random, but the overall out come of all cause and effect events form a pattern in evolution controlled by the Laws of Nature and the environment determine the limited range of the outcomes. In fact this pattern is recreated over the whole history of life where animals of repeatedly similar characteristics based on the environment.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-03-2019, 08:34 PM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

                          Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events.[1] A random sequence of events, symbols or steps has no order and does not follow an intelligible pattern or combination. Individual random events are by definition unpredictable, but in many cases the frequency of different outcomes over a large number of events (or "trials") is predictable.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Evolution takes place by pattern according to the Laws of Nature and the natural environment, and not randomly. Evolution does follow an intelligible pattern. It is possible that our evolution was limited by the laws of nature and environment, as Einstein said, " . . the dice are loaded."
                          So the fact that we have an evolutionary process in the first place, or humans, or dogs was predictable?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            So the fact that we have an evolutionary process in the first place, or humans, or dogs was predictable?
                            Yes, a great deal of the success of evolution is the ability to predict and confirm the intermediates and the outcomes over time of the evolution of species in response to changing environments. There are of course variations in the outcomes of the natural evolutionary process, but they are constrained by the Laws of Nature and the natural environments. The evidence is clear in the evolution history of life that after the catastrophic events that whipped out most species the evolutionary process diversified life again and species that resulted were predictably similar to fit the the resulting environment.

                            As I explained many times individual event outcomes may be 'random,' but the outcomes over time are constrained by the limits of the Natural Laws, and the environment.

                            The evolution of dogs was a man made evolution using the same predictive evolutionary processes of natural selection as naturally occur in response to changes in the environment to achieve human goals in dogs.

                            The history of evolution from the very beginning billions of years ago with abiogenesis represent predictable responses to the environment and changes in the environment over time. Again, being able to predict and confirm by the evidence the gaps in evolution, and the projection of the outcomes of evolution based on the objective verifiable evidence is the basis of a great deal of the basis of the success of the science of evolution.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-04-2019, 10:14 AM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • In other words, Tassman's example of computers was a bad one. Ok.
                              Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Yes, a great deal of the success of evolution is the ability to predict and confirm the intermediates and the outcomes over time of the evolution of species in response to changing environments. There are of course variations in the outcomes of the natural evolutionary process, but they are constrained by the Laws of Nature and the natural environments. The evidence is clear in the evolution history of life that after the catastrophic events that whipped out most species the evolutionary process diversified life again and species that resulted were predictably similar to fit the the resulting environment.

                                As I explained many times individual event outcomes may be 'random,' but the outcomes over time are constrained by the limits of the Natural Laws, and the environment.

                                The evolution of dogs was a man made evolution using the same predictive evolutionary processes of natural selection as naturally occur in response to changes in the environment to achieve human goals in dogs.

                                The history of evolution from the very beginning billions of years ago with abiogenesis represent predictable responses to the environment and changes in the environment over time. Again, being able to predict and confirm by the evidence the gaps in evolution, and the projection of the outcomes of evolution based on the objective verifiable evidence is the basis of a great deal of the basis of the success of the science of evolution.
                                Ok so outcomes are random. So did evolution itself have to happen? Or is that random too?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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