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Thread: Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

  1. #441
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is Shuny, there is no randomness, God created and ordered it all. Nature did not do this, God did...
    If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #442
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?
    The point is there is no randomness because God is involved and directing it. Which we both agree on...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  3. #443
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is there is no randomness because God is involved and directing it. Which we both agree on...
    Does not answer the question: If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?

    By the evidence 'chance' nor 'randomness' do not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature. They are only awkward terms that are used to describe the variation of the outcome of events in nature.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-16-2019 at 08:20 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. #444
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Does not answer the question: If there is no randomness, why are you arguing for randomness?

    By the evidence 'chance' nor 'randomness' do not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature. They are only awkward terms that are used to describe the variation of the outcome of events in nature.
    Because with out God how do you escape randomness? And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  5. #445
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because with out God how do you escape randomness?
    Evolution is not random. The survival and reproductive success of a living organism is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Natural selection events may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all.

    And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
    No he didn't. There is no substantive evidence for this assertion.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  6. #446
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    No he didn't. There is no substantive evidence for this assertion.
    But that is what both Shuny and I believe, and I was talking to him...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  7. #447
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because with out God how do you escape randomness? And of course randomness does not determine the course of natural cause and effect events in nature because God created and directed it all.
    I am basing this on objective verifiable evidence, and regardless of whether God exists or not there is absolutely no evidence the chance nor randomness has any influence concerning the natural course of cause and effect outcomes.

    I gave specific English definitions to randomness, and it only applies to single events, and not the outcomes of chains of cause and effect outcomes of natural processes.

    Your trying to play two sides of an argument to justify your agenda, and ignoring the matter of fact evidence.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; Yesterday at 11:18 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #448
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I am basing this on objective verifiable evidence, and regardless of whether God exists or not there is absolutely no evidence the chance nor randomness has any influence concerning the natural course of cause and effect outcomes.
    How do you know that there would not be randomness without God since God is involved. The fact is Shuny, you have no idea what nature would or would not act like without God because we don't have such a universe.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #449
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    How do you know that there would not be randomness without God since God is involved. The fact is Shuny, you have no idea what nature would or would not act like without God because we don't have such a universe.
    The objective verifiable evidence of the Laws of Nature, natural environments and natural processes, and the definition of 'chance' and 'randomness' determine that 'chance' and 'randomness' only apply to the outcome of individual events.

    We both believe that randomness does not cause anything in God's Creation and the evidence supports this. Unfortunately for you, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that abiogenesis and evolution is God's method of Creation of life, and not chance nor randomness.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  10. #450
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    We both believe that randomness does not cause anything in God's Creation and the evidence supports this. Unfortunately for you, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that abiogenesis and evolution is God's method of Creation of life, and not chance nor randomness.
    The point is Shuny, since we both know that God created and directed the process (whether it is evolutionary or not) we have no idea if nature, without the direction of God, could create the universe and life as we see it today.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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