Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

[JimL]

[the picture only exists in your mind]

And you think this picture actually exists somewhere in your head? Where exactly in your head would you say it is Sparko. Does it have a specific place, is it confined to the inside of your head or what?

[seer]

Right, there is no screen, there are no eyes, there is just a physical brain, so how do you suppose you are seeing an actual picture?

Jim, is there an image in your head or not?

[Sparko]

They are patterns of brain activity which is why if you could actually see your brain, that is all you would see.

What causes/initiates those patterns of activity in your brain when you want to think of say, your mom?

No.

But the image only exists in your mind and you said it was not a physical image. So it and your mind must be immaterial. ipso facto.

Because the mind is the brain, not a thing in its own right. When you look at a brain you can't see what we call the mind, because the mind is just an aspect of the physical brain, it's what the brain does.

software isn't the hardware on a computer that it runs on is it?

Ok, good, so we agree it's a bad analogy.

Its actually quite a good one. I can tell by the way you keep doing everything you can to ignore it.

Exactly what are you claiming to be immaterial here?

The software. the virtual world that the software creates. that you interact with.

[Sparko]

Right, there is no screen, there are no eyes, there is just a physical brain, so how do you suppose you are seeing an actual picture?

using your mind. Your immaterial mind. To view an immaterial image.

I've obviously seen both my mother and unfortunately Trump. We can put together patterns of brain activity with respect to all aspects of the world to come up with an mental image.

A mental image that doesn't exist in the real world? That is immaterial?

[JimL]

Jim, is there an image in your head or not?

No, there is not. Now I know you believe there is, so tell me exactly where in your head it is, and with what organ of sight you are seeing it?

[Sparko]

And you think this picture actually exists somewhere in your head? Where exactly in your head would you say it is Sparko. Does it have a specific place, is it confined to the inside of your head or what?

Yep. the photo is just a bunch of random pixels lighting up after being transmitted through the air, picked up by my computer and displayed on the monitor. My eyes pick it up, transmit the light into electricity and my brain turns it into an image that my mind can subjectively recognize as an analogy of the trainwreck this thread has become trying to discuss this topic with you

Nowhere is there a picture of two trains wrecking except in our minds.

[JimL]

What causes/initiates those patterns of activity in your brain when you want to think of say, your mom?

It depends, just now the cause was your question.

But the image only exists in your mind and you said it was not a physical image. So it and your mind must be immaterial. ipso facto.

The image in your head is not an actual picture. Where do you think the images conjured up in your head come from, do you just think them into existence, or do they just exist eternally waiting for you to look at them?

software isn't the hardware on a computer that it runs on is it?

Nope, neither is it immaterial.

Its actually quite a good one. I can tell by the way you keep doing everything you can to ignore it.

It's okay, but it's flawed in its comparison to a brain.

The software. the virtual world that the software creates. that you interact with.

What do you mean by the software? Do you mean the material images that you are looking at with your eyes and interacting with? Is that what you mean by immaterial?

[Sparko]

And you think this picture actually exists somewhere in your head? Where exactly in your head would you say it is Sparko. Does it have a specific place, is it confined to the inside of your head or what?

No Jim, because it is.....wait for it.... IMMATERIAL.

[Sparko]

It depends, just now the cause was your question.

cool. So I am in control of your brain?

Bark like a dog!

did it work?

The image in your head is not an actual picture. Where do you think the images conjured up in your head come from, do you just think them into existence, or do they just exist eternally waiting for you to look at them?

My mind created it. It did indeed "conjure" it up. I did indeed just think them into existence. An immaterial existence.

What do you mean by the software? Do you mean the material images that you are looking at with your eyes and interacting with? Is that what you mean by immaterial?

no Jim, the software is the program. Not the words that describe the program or the symbols that are stored in the file, not the transistors that run the program, the program itself.

[seer]

No, there is not. Now I know you believe there is, so tell me exactly where in your head it is, and with what organ of sight you are seeing it?

So when you see an image of your mother in your mind there really isn't an image of your mother? Then what is it?

[shunyadragon]

No Jim, because it is.....wait for it.... IMMATERIAL.

Only in terms of being imprinted on brain cells, which are material chemical reactions.

[JimL]

So when you see an image of your mother in your mind there really isn't an image of your mother? Then what is it?

I ask you a question seer? Where in your head does this picture exist, and when thinking of it, with what observational organs are you looking at it with?

[Tassman]

No there is not, that is why it is immaterial.

Nevertheless the mind acts in concert with the material brain, not as a separate independent entity. There is no credible evidence that the mind is more than the material brain in action. When the brain is damaged, the mind is altered and when the brain dies so does the mind.

[seer]

I ask you a question seer? Where in your head does this picture exist, and when thinking of it, with what observational organs are you looking at it with?

Jim, first we have to establish - does the image of your mother exist or not? If it is not an image of your mother then what is it?

[JimL]

Jim, first we have to establish - does the image of your mother exist or not? If it is not an image of your mother then what is it?

No, it exists as a mental concept, there is no actual picture of your mother or anything else "in your head." When you close your eyes and think of your mother, whence comes the image? Does it always exist somewhere in your head, is there a special storage place in there where this immaterial picture and a zillion other pictures are hidden away just waiting for you to summon them into view, or do you think them into and out of existence? And what does it mean to say that you can see her, do you have eyes that can see in the absolute darkness inside your head. Your not seeing your mother, you are remembering her as you saw her in the past. I saw my 93 year old mother yesterday and I can remember exactly what she looked like then, but I am not seeing her now.