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Thread: Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

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    tWebber
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    Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

    Those who are against substance dualism claim that there are conceptual difficulties with the idea that an immaterial mind can interact with a physical body.

    The following is a quote from the IEP about dualism:
    "Since the mind is, on the Cartesian model, immaterial and unextended, it can have no size, shape, location, mass, motion or solidity. How then can minds act on bodies? What sort of mechanism could convey information of the sort bodily movement requires, between ontologically autonomous realms? To suppose that non-physical minds can move bodies is like supposing that imaginary locomotives can pull real boxcars."

    The article is located here: https://www.iep.utm.edu/dualism/#SH7c

    How do you respond that to this claim?

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    The brain is the mind/body interface.

  3. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Those who are against substance dualism claim that there are conceptual difficulties with the idea that an immaterial mind can interact with a physical body.

    The following is a quote from the IEP about dualism:
    "Since the mind is, on the Cartesian model, immaterial and unextended, it can have no size, shape, location, mass, motion or solidity. How then can minds act on bodies? What sort of mechanism could convey information of the sort bodily movement requires, between ontologically autonomous realms? To suppose that non-physical minds can move bodies is like supposing that imaginary locomotives can pull real boxcars."

    The article is located here: https://www.iep.utm.edu/dualism/#SH7c

    How do you respond that to this claim?
    A couple of things, I think John Carew Eccles did some good work on dualist-interactionism. Though it has been a while since I looked into this. William Hasker suggested emergent dualism where the mind is an emergent property of the physical brain and has a looping effect on the brain. More over it is not important to answer this question, why should we look to science to answer such a thing? Then there is the question of definitions - what is material? Immaterial? Perhaps immaterial is physical in a way we do not understand or never will.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  5. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Those who are against substance dualism claim that there are conceptual difficulties with the idea that an immaterial mind can interact with a physical body.

    The following is a quote from the IEP about dualism:
    "Since the mind is, on the Cartesian model, immaterial and unextended, it can have no size, shape, location, mass, motion or solidity. How then can minds act on bodies? What sort of mechanism could convey information of the sort bodily movement requires, between ontologically autonomous realms? To suppose that non-physical minds can move bodies is like supposing that imaginary locomotives can pull real boxcars."

    The article is located here: https://www.iep.utm.edu/dualism/#SH7c

    How do you respond that to this claim?
    I would respond that even if I don't understand the "mechanism" that allows a soul to control a physical body I would still be justified in believing in the existence of immaterial minds. It simply isn't a problem that's serious enough that it would warrant questioning my belief in mind-body dualism.

  7. Amen Cerebrum123, seer amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The brain is the mind/body interface.
    Why should the brain be the only complex physical object in the universe to have an interface with another realm of being? The mind and consciousness can be reduced to the neurological function of the brain and nervous system.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Why should the brain be the only complex physical object in the universe to have an interface with another realm of being? The mind and consciousness can be reduced to the neurological function of the brain and nervous system.
    Nothing of the sort has been shown to be the case yet.

  10. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The brain is the mind/body interface.
    That is not even an answer, it's just the assertion of the belief that's in dispute here.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Nothing of the sort has been shown to be the case yet.
    Except for the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to the contrary.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    A couple of things, I think John Carew Eccles did some good work on dualist-interactionism. Though it has been a while since I looked into this. William Hasker suggested emergent dualism where the mind is an emergent property of the physical brain and has a looping effect on the brain. More over it is not important to answer this question, why should we look to science to answer such a thing? Then there is the question of definitions - what is material? Immaterial? Perhaps immaterial is physical in a way we do not understand or never will.
    Nervous systems emerged seer, they became more and more complex over millions of years, not more and more immaterial.

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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Nothing of the sort has been shown to be the case yet.
    To date many processes that at one time were considered supernatural have given way to a physical scientific understanding, e.g. the “miracle” of reproduction is now well understood via the intricacies of molecular biology. Why should the mind/soul be an exception? All indications are that it can be reduced to the neurological function of the brain and nervous system? This is surely a more likely explanation than claiming ‘god did it’ when there’s not a shred in evidence that this is the case.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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