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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    "probable?" "no good reason to think otherwise" That isn't "strong evidence" Tassy.

    You mentioned "strong evidence" that the mind does not survive. You haven't provided ANY evidence. You made the positive claim that there was STRONG EVIDENCE. so lets see it. Links to such evidence would be appreciated.
    I'd say that there being no good reason to believe in fairies is "strong evidence" for there being no such thing as fairies. A lack of evidence, is evidence, as far as negative claims are concerned.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      I'd say that there being no good reason to believe in fairies is "strong evidence" for there being no such thing as fairies. A lack of evidence, is evidence, as far as negative claims are concerned.
      But there is good reason to believe in life after death.

      But I don't see any of the strong evidence Tassman mentioned that there is no mind surviving death. He made the claim. Now he just has to show it. His rules, remember?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        "probable?" "no good reason to think otherwise" That isn't "strong evidence" Tassy.

        You mentioned "strong evidence" that the mind does not survive. You haven't provided ANY evidence. You made the positive claim that there was STRONG EVIDENCE. so lets see it. Links to such evidence would be appreciated.
        The evidence is, as JimL says, “there being no good reason to believe in fairies is strong evidence for there being no such thing as fairies”. The same applies to faith-based claims of life after death.

        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        But there is good reason to believe in life after death.
        There is no good reason to "believe in life after death".
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          The evidence is, as JimL says, “there being no good reason to believe in fairies is strong evidence for there being no such thing as fairies”. The same applies to faith-based claims of life after death.



          There is no good reason to "believe in life after death".
          There are reasons good enough that most people believe in life after death, Tassman. You just mean not good enough for you.

          And you have not shown any strong evidence, which you claimed to have, that the mind/soul doesn't survive death. "no good reason to believe otherwise" is not strong evidence FOR your belief.

          Just admit you don't have any strong evidence.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            There are reasons good enough that most people believe in life after death, Tassman. You just mean not good enough for you.
            The reasons are based on beliefs, such as the religious belief in invisible souls that fly away when the body dies. There are no fact based reasons to believe in life after death.
            And you have not shown any strong evidence, which you claimed to have, that the mind/soul doesn't survive death. "no good reason to believe otherwise" is not strong evidence FOR your belief.
            You need first to show that this mind/soul is an existing thing before you can ask others to prove it survives death.
            Just admit you don't have any strong evidence.
            I admit, I have no strong evidence of an existing immaterial soul. Btw, neither do you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              The reasons are based on beliefs, such as the religious belief in invisible souls that fly away when the body dies. There are no fact based reasons to believe in life after death.

              You need first to show that this mind/soul is an existing thing before you can ask others to prove it survives death.

              I admit, I have no strong evidence of an existing immaterial soul. Btw, neither do you.
              Most beliefs are indeed based on reasons which use evidence to come to a conclusion. If someone finds the evidence good enough, then they believe. There can be no "facts" because how can you objectively measure where a mind goes after death? Other than that mind reporting back to you that it was alive after the body was dead? and that means the body has to come back to life for you to talk to that mind.

              Also we have eye witness reports of God revealing that there is life after death. Jesus proved it to us even.

              So there is a lot of evidence for life after death. So that is why people believe it.

              There are ZERO facts that prove there is no life after death. There is no "strong evidence" that there is no life after death, which Tassman claimed. Feel free to prove otherwise.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                There are reasons good enough that most people believe in life after death, Tassman. You just mean not good enough for you.
                The “reason” that some people believe in life after death is the fear of death, which is usually fueled by religions.

                And you have not shown any strong evidence, which you claimed to have, that the mind/soul doesn't survive death. "no good reason to believe otherwise" is not strong evidence FOR your belief.
                I think that no good reason to believe in something is a pretty strong reason not to believe it. .
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  The “reason” that some people believe in life after death is the fear of death, which is usually fueled by religions.
                  No. Why would I fear just ceasing to exist?




                  I think that no good reason to believe in something is a pretty strong reason not to believe it. .
                  Where is your strong EVIDENCE Tassman? You claimed you had it. Let's see it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    No. Why would I fear just ceasing to exist?
                    Right, all my years as an agnostic I never really worried about death. The dead know and feel nothing. But as a Christian I have more reservations since a judgement is coming...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      No. Why would I fear just ceasing to exist?
                      The fear of death is a commonplace human trait and the belief that eternal souls/minds exist is common currency among religions...not so much outside of religion...to overcome this fear.

                      Where is your strong EVIDENCE Tassman? You claimed you had it. Let's see it.
                      The strong evidence is that there is no substantive reason to believe the soul/mind survives the death of the brain, whereas there is plenty of evidence that it doesn’t. This is shown by the measurable effects of brain trauma on the soul/mind via brain surgery, accidents, epilepsy or dementia etc. OTOH all you can produce by way of contrary argument (outside of your religions belief in eternal life) are mere anecdotal NDE’s. Hence, no good reason to believe in something is a pretty strong reason not to believe it. If you have strong, substantiated evidence to the contrary then provide it instead of demanding that I prove a negative.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Most beliefs are indeed based on reasons which use evidence to come to a conclusion.
                        On this planet, most beliefs are based on being told things.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
                        MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

                        mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          The fear of death is a commonplace human trait and the belief that eternal souls/minds exist is common currency among religions...not so much outside of religion...to overcome this fear.
                          so then why aren't you scared into believing in God?


                          The strong evidence is that there is no substantive reason to believe the soul/mind survives the death of the brain, whereas there is plenty of evidence that it doesn’t. This is shown by the measurable effects of brain trauma on the soul/mind via brain surgery, accidents, epilepsy or dementia etc. OTOH all you can produce by way of contrary argument (outside of your religions belief in eternal life) are mere anecdotal NDE’s. Hence, no good reason to believe in something is a pretty strong reason not to believe it. If you have strong, substantiated evidence to the contrary then provide it instead of demanding that I prove a negative.
                          So the strong evidence is that there is no evidence?


                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            so then why aren't you scared into believing in God?
                            I’m not into escapist fantasies…except perhaps for Star Wars.

                            So the strong evidence is that there is no evidence?
                            There is a lot of evidence that the soul/mind is totally dependent on the brain. If the brain is damaged so is the mind, if the brain ceases to exist all indications are that the mind does too. There is no substantive evidence this is not so.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              I’m not into escapist fantasies…except perhaps for Star Wars.
                              that is a non-sequitur. If all people are afraid of death and that causes them to believe in God, then why don't you? Could it be that your simplistic assertion is incorrect?



                              There is a lot of evidence that the soul/mind is totally dependent on the brain. If the brain is damaged so is the mind, if the brain ceases to exist all indications are that the mind does too. There is no substantive evidence this is not so.
                              Again, you claimed STRONG EVIDENCE that the mind doesn't survive death. Please provide it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                that is a non-sequitur. If all people are afraid of death and that causes them to believe in God, then why don't you? Could it be that your simplistic assertion is incorrect?
                                I did not say that “all people are afraid of death”. I said “The reason some people believe in life after death is the fear of death". And that “the belief that eternal souls/minds exist is common currency among religions”. Is this not so?

                                Again, you claimed STRONG EVIDENCE that the mind doesn't survive death. Please provide it.
                                Already done that. If the brain ceases to exist the strong indications are that the mind does too. If you have “strong evidence” to the contrary please provide it, otherwise my argument stands based upon the available evidence.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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