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Thread: Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    A couple of things, I think John Carew Eccles did some good work on dualist-interactionism. Though it has been a while since I looked into this. William Hasker suggested emergent dualism where the mind is an emergent property of the physical brain and has a looping effect on the brain. More over it is not important to answer this question, why should we look to science to answer such a thing? Then there is the question of definitions - what is material? Immaterial? Perhaps immaterial is physical in a way we do not understand or never will.
    How does Hasker explain how an immaterial soul can arise from a material brain.

    Material means made of matter and immaterial means not made of matter.

  2. #12
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    How does Hasker explain how an immaterial soul can arise from a material brain.

    Material means made of matter and immaterial means not made of matter.
    It is rather funny actually. Seer argues vehemently against the idea that rational minds can emerge from the irrational matter, but he's fine with the idea of immaterial minds emerging from the material/matter.

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    The interaction problem between the soul and the body is that since the soul is not spatially extended, it cannot interact with something that is spatially extended.

    My response to the interaction problem is that not everything is caused in the same way. The soul does not cause things to happen in the same way that a physical object causes things to happen. When a physical object interacts with another physical object, pieces of matter come in contact with other pieces of matter. They hit each other or collide with each other. An immaterial soul interacts with a physical body by being present with that body and by exerting its influence on the body. If one has good, independent reasons for believing that people have souls, then he is justified in believing that people have souls even if he cannot describe the exact procedure that the soul uses to interact with the body.

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  5. #14
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It is rather funny actually. Seer argues vehemently against the idea that rational minds can emerge from the irrational matter, but he's fine with the idea of immaterial minds emerging from the material/matter.
    Well you've go to fit God into it somehow, Jim, that's what it's all about. <sarcasm>
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    How does Hasker explain how an immaterial soul can arise from a material brain.

    Material means made of matter and immaterial means not made of matter.
    He would say it is something like a magnetic field (mind/soul) around a magnet (brain). And I'm not sure about definitions, is gravity material or immaterial? Is it made up of matter? None that we know of. But again Hornet, why do we have to demonstrate how something works before we believe it is true?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It is rather funny actually. Seer argues vehemently against the idea that rational minds can emerge from the irrational matter, but he's fine with the idea of immaterial minds emerging from the material/matter.
    Wrong Jim, since in both cases God is the author of both minds and rationality.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Wrong Jim, since in both cases God is the author of both minds and rationality.
    Seer, your argument has for a long time now been that it is illogical to believe that rational minds can emerge from irrational matter, but you then argue that you believe in emergent immaterial "rational" minds, immaterial 'rational" minds that emerge from irrational matter. Can't have it both ways my friend. If your argument now is going to be that "well, true, it is illogical, but god can do it, god can make immaterial "rational" minds emerge from irrational matter, well, then, god could also cause material "rational" minds emerge from irrational matter. But then of course there is no reason to bring god into the picture, because if it's material, then it's material and the process is an evolutionary one so needs no external force to direct it. In other words your argument has always been a contradiction in logic.
    Last edited by JimL; 11-19-2018 at 07:42 AM.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Why should the brain be the only complex physical object in the universe to have an interface with another realm of being? The mind and consciousness can be reduced to the neurological function of the brain and nervous system.
    Who said the mind is another realm of being?

    Your mind uses the brain to tell your body what to do. You think you want to move your arm and your brain tells your arm to move and your arm moves. Unless you don't believe in conscious thought and free will. Then your arm just moves for no reason at all and you are just a mechanical doll.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    That is not even an answer, it's just the assertion of the belief that's in dispute here.
    Clearly you are out of your depth here, JimL. You would need a mind in order to understand what it does.

  11. #20
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Seer, your argument has for a long time now been that it is illogical to believe that rational minds can emerge from irrational matter, but you then argue that you believe in emergent immaterial "rational" minds, immaterial 'rational" minds that emerge from irrational matter.
    Jim don't be dense, I don't believe that the physical brain is non-rational, since it was created by a rational God. Therefore your whole argument fails since the emergent mind is not being produced by a non-rational source.

    If your argument now is going to be that "well, true, it is illogical, but god can do it, god can make immaterial "rational" minds emerge from irrational matter, well, then, god could also cause material "rational" minds emerge from irrational matter.
    What are you taking about? Nothing I said was illogical...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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