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Thread: Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim don't be dense, I don't believe that the physical brain is non-rational, since it was created by a rational God. Therefore your whole argument fails since the emergent mind is not being produced by a non-rational source.



    What are you taking about? Nothing I said was illogical...
    Ah, so now you believe that the physical brain is itself a rational thinking thing in its own right? Very good, you're coming around seer.

  2. #22
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Ah, so now you believe that the physical brain is itself a rational thinking thing in its own right? Very good, you're coming around seer.
    Jim, it is not in its own right. Any more than a computer is rational in its own right, it had to be designed to be rational. I don't believe that the non-rational forces of nature could create a rational functioning calculator, never mind something much more complicated like the human brain.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  3. #23
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, it is not in its own right. Any more than a computer is rational in its own right, it had to be designed to be rational. I don't believe that the non-rational forces of nature could create a rational functioning calculator, never mind something much more complicated like the human brain.
    This is Jim's way of avoiding giving you a logical argument like you asked for.

  4. #24
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, it is not in its own right. Any more than a computer is rational in its own right, it had to be designed to be rational. I don't believe that the non-rational forces of nature could create a rational functioning calculator, never mind something much more complicated like the human brain.
    A computer must be programmed to be rational just as we are biological computers—designed by natural selection, built through genetics, and programmed by the environment.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  6. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, it is not in its own right. Any more than a computer is rational in its own right, it had to be designed to be rational. I don't believe that the non-rational forces of nature could create a rational functioning calculator, never mind something much more complicated like the human brain.
    Yes, I know, you don't believe what you can see with your own eyes like the evolution of the human nervous system out of the non-rational forces of nature, but somehow you believe in things that you can't see and for which there is no evidence. We are living proof that rational minds can be created by the non rational forces of nature, because we are a part of that nature. What nature does is create the senses of experience and the rational mind is a natural spinoff of that.

  7. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  8. #26
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yes, I know, you don't believe what you can see with your own eyes like the evolution of the human nervous system out of the non-rational forces of nature, but somehow you believe in things that you can't see and for which there is no evidence. We are living proof that rational minds can be created by the non rational forces of nature, because we are a part of that nature. What nature does is create the senses of experience and the rational mind is a natural spinoff of that.
    Hey Jim, I never saw the human the evolution of the human nervous system and neither did you. Or anyone.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #27
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Hey Jim, I never saw the human the evolution of the human nervous system and neither did you. Or anyone.
    You never saw the divine creation of the human nervous system and God's implantation of a soul either. But there is good reason to think that the mind and consciousness evolved as a neurological function of the brain and nervous system rather than your 'god did it' scenario, for which there's no substantive evidence at all.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  10. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  11. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Hey Jim, I never saw the human the evolution of the human nervous system and neither did you. Or anyone.
    Perhaps not directly, but if you bothered to look you would directly observe the evidence of the evolution of lifes nervous system and the human brain from out of the non-rational forces of nature. All you are doing is saying that yes, nature does that, it creates rational minds from out of its irrational substance, but it only does it because it is somehow programed by an actual mind to do so. That is simply an argument from incredulity. You just simply can't believe your eyes.

  12. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  13. #29
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Perhaps not directly, but if you bothered to look you would directly observe the evidence of the evolution of lifes nervous system and the human brain from out of the non-rational forces of nature. All you are doing is saying that yes, nature does that, it creates rational minds from out of its irrational substance, but it only does it because it is somehow programed by an actual mind to do so. That is simply an argument from incredulity. You just simply can't believe your eyes.
    I have no idea what that means. You can not and did not directly observe how the forces of nature created the nervous system. What you do see is how these systems are acted on by natural forces in various ways, not how these systems were created in the first place... So you have no idea if non-rational, non-conscious forces could or did create rational, conscious beings... But you have faith that they did...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  14. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  15. #30
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I have no idea what that means. You can not and did not directly observe how the forces of nature created the nervous system. What you do see is how these systems are acted on by natural forces in various ways, not how these systems were created in the first place... So you have no idea if non-rational, non-conscious forces could or did create rational, conscious beings... But you have faith that they did...
    It can be inferred from observation and induction that it is highly probable that the mind and consciousness evolved as a neurological function of the brain and nervous system. This is more probable than positing, without good evidence, a supernatural explanation. This is no more than an ‘argument from ignorance’.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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