Originally posted by Tassman
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‘Alarming’ Study Claiming Global Warming Heating Up Oceans Based on Math Error
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNot to mention the fact that even should we be wrong, switching to alternative energy sources is both good for the economy, creates many new jobs and makes for a cleaner healthier environment to boot. So there is no reason, there was no reason 40 years ago, not to begin the process of weening ourselves off fossil fuels, other than the fossil fuel industry's lobbyist stuffing the campaign chests of republican politicians who then lie to their constituents who, lemmings that they are, tend to believe whatever their reps tell them.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIn what alternative universe is paying through the nose for (subsidized) alternative energy "good" for the economy?
But to answer the economic question, my brother and I were discussing yesterday why we would both like to see our own govt do a huge solar panel construction project. It would be economically stimulative because:
1. As a govt expenditures of $$$ it creates that jobs of the people receiving that $$$. The area where I was suggesting the solar panels go in is quite poor and it would be good to see jobs created in that area installing and maintaining the solar farm.
2. Increasing the electricity supply in the country, relative to demand, results in cheaper electricity prices. And if every business in the country is paying lower costs for electricity, then their goods can be less expensive, customers can afford to buy more of their goods, they will then need to hire more workers to produce more goods, etc."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostFossil fuels are hugely subsidized in the US, so not sure why you'd contrast the subsidies for alternative energy in this way.
But to answer the economic question, my brother and I were discussing yesterday why we would both like to see our own govt do a huge solar panel construction project. It would be economically stimulative because:
1. As a govt expenditures of $$$ it creates that jobs of the people receiving that $$$. The area where I was suggesting the solar panels go in is quite poor and it would be good to see jobs created in that area installing and maintaining the solar farm.
2. Increasing the electricity supply in the country, relative to demand, results in cheaper electricity prices. And if every business in the country is paying lower costs for electricity, then their goods can be less expensive, customers can afford to buy more of their goods, they will then need to hire more workers to produce more goods, etc."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostWhat do you do when it’s dark?
If your point is that solar doesn't increase the electricity supply at night and thus doesn't decrease the night-time electricity spot price, then I would note that the majority of businesses do not operate at night so this would not affect them."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe bulk of my country's power generation is hydro which can easily be stop-started at different times of day to balance out any load change from solar.
If your point is that solar doesn't increase the electricity supply at night and thus doesn't decrease the night-time electricity spot price, then I would note that the majority of businesses do not operate at night so this would not affect them.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIsn't your solar "banked" in batteries at night?
I haven't looked into it in detail, but I've heard some of the Nordic countries instead of using batteries to store power instead pump water in reverse back into their hydro-lakes so it can subsequently go through the hydro stations again when more power is needed. Seems like a cleaner method than batteries, which can be rather expensive and use rare materials that aren't always very environmentally friendly in and of themselves.Last edited by Starlight; 12-09-2018, 09:48 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIn what alternative universe is paying through the nose for (subsidized) alternative energy "good" for the economy?
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostExisting solar installations here are piecemeal and privately owned and would vary widely on how they work. There is no large solar power station to the best of my knowledge nor any large battery banks. Perhaps you are thinking of the recent Tesla battery installation that took place in Aus?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI haven't looked into it in detail, but I've heard some of the Nordic countries instead of using batteries to store power instead pump water in reverse back into their hydro-lakes so it can subsequently go through the hydro stations again when more power is needed. Seems like a cleaner method than batteries, which can be rather expensive and use rare materials that aren't always very environmentally friendly in and of themselves.
The gamechanger, however, with my solar power around the ranch came when LED lighting became so much less expensive*, and in way more forms than just "bulbs". Because the LED uses less power, the batteries don't need to be near as substantial, or the solar panels so large.
*initially, I really couldn't justify the huge difference in cost of the LED vs CFLs or whatever, but as so often happens, as more people buy LED lights, the cost continues to decrease.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou’re oversimplifying. Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal what with Global temperature rises, Warming oceans, Shrinking ice sheets, Glacial retreat, Decreased snow cover, Sea level rise, Declining Arctic sea ice and Extreme events such as the record disastrous forest fires in California and Australia.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
So, why are you and your supporters hell-bent upon diminishing the importance and concern over global warming given the demonstrable drastic consequences for the planet?
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Many solar powered facilities are connected into a greater utility grid, and excess electricity in daylight goes into the grid, and at night the electricity needed comes from the grid. In the case of Iceland the greater power grid is likely hydroelectric or possibly geothermal, and batteries would not be needed.
Isolated solar systems would require batteries.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-10-2018, 10:15 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostFor one thing, where do you get the idea that you will be paying through the nose?
The more prominent alternative energies become, the less they will cost the consumers. Also, being labor intensive they will also provide many high paying jobs.
But, how much do you think the clean up and rebuilding due to these environmental tragedies such as hurricanes, forest fires, due to climate change, end up costing the tax payers, and will continue to end up costing them even more in the future if we continue in that direction? Not to mention the rise in property and health Insurance premiums? Alternative energies will end up costing us all a lot less than fossil fuels cost us overall and in generaal we'll all be much healthier to boot.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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