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‘Alarming’ Study Claiming Global Warming Heating Up Oceans Based on Math Error

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  • Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    Sparko is making himself look like a real jackass with his dishonest misrepresentation just so he can "win". Let him be Jorge if it makes him happy. Everyone else can see who the real liar is.
    I am not the one who can't let this go. I merely called Tassman out on his logical fallacy and then he had to lie about it, then you had to jump in and keep it going and accuse me of lying so I merely backed up what I said and posted the evidence. Over and over. Because you guys can't let it go. And Tassman can't admit to his error. I have it all saved as a file and can repost it over and over fairly easy, so we can go as long as you guys want to.

    ---
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    Whatever biases some scientists may have, for whatever reason, are irrelevant in the face of undoubted fact that Earth's climate is warming.

    “Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position”

    https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
    and

    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    So, what about the ninety-seven percent of climate scientists, who agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide, which have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
      I think you are confused. I haven't posted any links in this thread.
      Might have been beagle. sorry.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        I don't really understand what they get out of their denial. Like, even if there's only a 1% chance the scientists are right about climate change, what's lost by installing a few solar panels and planting a few trees?
        07-65-pic-1_0.jpg

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]34921[/ATTACH]
          Yes, let's just pretend that "climate deniers" are against all those things.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Yes, let's just pretend that "climate deniers" are against all those things.
            So it's bad to have those things if they happen to reduce global warming?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Yes, let's just pretend that "climate deniers" are against all those things.
              It’s hard to “pretend” when Trump, supported by his climate denying base, withdrew from the Paris Agreement and has appointed a head of the EPA to oversee the agency's overhaul of rules intended to cut greenhouse gas emissions from power plants and its effort to cancel plans to increase fuel efficiency standards for autos etc.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]34921[/ATTACH]
                The argument from the "deniers" (and I won't stipulate to "climate deniers" because the denial has morphed into various forms of deniers: that humans are causing it, that it is a bad thing, etc.) isn't that any of those things are bad, but rather that the ecological way to those things will turn the entire economy on its ear (or at least harm it greatly).

                Personally, I think they are not taking the long-term view. The fact is that the fossil fuels industry MUST die. It's only a matter of time. And that is because fossil fuels are a finite resource - so they will eventually run out. It may be 100-200 years down the road, but they will run out eventually. Meanwhile, renewables are essentially forever - so they will eventually dominate and replace fossil fuels. The long term economic question to be answered (to me) is where will the U.S. stand in all of that. We can either lead the industry - or we can be dependent on China and other countries as it happens. Right now, AFAICT, China is dominating the industry, and we are gloating over our newfound dominance in fossil fuels. If I were the Chinese leadership, I'd be chuckling. Remember - they are very familiar with the "long view." China has been around for thousands of years - the U.S. for a couple hundred.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  The argument from the "deniers" (and I won't stipulate to "climate deniers" because the denial has morphed into various forms of deniers: that humans are causing it, that it is a bad thing, etc.) isn't that any of those things are bad, but rather that the ecological way to those things will turn the entire economy on its ear (or at least harm it greatly).

                  Personally, I think they are not taking the long-term view. The fact is that the fossil fuels industry MUST die. It's only a matter of time. And that is because fossil fuels are a finite resource - so they will eventually run out. It may be 100-200 years down the road, but they will run out eventually. Meanwhile, renewables are essentially forever - so they will eventually dominate and replace fossil fuels. The long term economic question to be answered (to me) is where will the U.S. stand in all of that. We can either lead the industry - or we can be dependent on China and other countries as it happens. Right now, AFAICT, China is dominating the industry, and we are gloating over our newfound dominance in fossil fuels. If I were the Chinese leadership, I'd be chuckling. Remember - they are very familiar with the "long view." China has been around for thousands of years - the U.S. for a couple hundred.
                  I don't have a problem with anything on that list, I just have a problem when some nutty liberals like AOC come up with a "Green New Deal" that wants to completely create an upheaval of the economy and force the change in an unreasonable amount of time just by trying to legislate it. New technologies replace older ones at a natural pace and if there is an incentive, maybe faster. But stating goals like eliminating all internal combustion engines in 10 years, or replacing all energy sources with clean renewable energy in 10 years without any regard to the cost or even if it is technologically feasible is worse than useless, it is dangerous. They want to bankrupt the country because they think the sky is falling.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                    So it's bad to have those things if they happen to reduce global warming?
                    Why would I say that?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      The argument from the "deniers" (and I won't stipulate to "climate deniers" because the denial has morphed into various forms of deniers: that humans are causing it, that it is a bad thing, etc.) isn't that any of those things are bad, but rather that the ecological way to those things will turn the entire economy on its ear (or at least harm it greatly).

                      Personally, I think they are not taking the long-term view. The fact is that the fossil fuels industry MUST die. It's only a matter of time. And that is because fossil fuels are a finite resource - so they will eventually run out. It may be 100-200 years down the road, but they will run out eventually. Meanwhile, renewables are essentially forever - so they will eventually dominate and replace fossil fuels. The long term economic question to be answered (to me) is where will the U.S. stand in all of that. We can either lead the industry - or we can be dependent on China and other countries as it happens. Right now, AFAICT, China is dominating the industry, and we are gloating over our newfound dominance in fossil fuels. If I were the Chinese leadership, I'd be chuckling. Remember - they are very familiar with the "long view." China has been around for thousands of years - the U.S. for a couple hundred.
                      China is currently chuckling over the US/Europe's promise to kneecap their economies in pursuit of less AGW while they vaguely promise to start addressing it 3 decades from now. China is dominating industry right now because they have minimal environmental controls, can pay their workers peanuts to work in abominable conditions, routinely steal innovations rather than develop things themselves, and can apply government subsidies if necessary.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        China is currently chuckling over the US/Europe's promise to kneecap their economies in pursuit of less AGW...
                        There is no need to "kneecap" an economy, and I have seen little evidence that a shift to renewables will "kneecap" the economy, much as it is often touted. It appears to be an argument based on FUD. Indeed, the big problem I see is that the change is harming families and communities currently dependent on the production of fossil fuels for their livelihood (while bolstering the lives and communities where production of renewables are taking off) and this has not been addressed. Despite all of Trump's promises, he is having negligible impact on this sector. If I were running for office, I would borrow a line from Reagan and ask these people if their life has truly gotten better since Trump took office.

                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        while they vaguely promise to start addressing it 3 decades from now.
                        That is apparently not the case, though it is again an often-touted "fact." And China's economy is showing an expected slowdown as it climbs (no country can sustain the growth rate they have been exhibiting indefinitely), but there is little evidence that thiis is linked to renewables. Indeed, China has a double win: it is reducing output while simultaneously positioning itself as the dominant source for renewable technologies. Indeed, a significant amount (most?) of the renewable technology installed in the U.S. sources from China. And China is quickly stepping in as the climate leader.

                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        China is dominating industry right now because they have minimal environmental controls,
                        Have had...this is changing, and China is stepping into the leadership vacuum left by the departure of the U.S.

                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        can pay their workers peanuts to work in abominable conditions,
                        True...but quality of life is on the rise in China. This will eventually change, or the Chinese leaders will find themselves with a significant problem on their hands.

                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        routinely steal innovations rather than develop things themselves,
                        Also true...and needs to be addressed...but unrelated.

                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        and can apply government subsidies if necessary.
                        Also true - but then so can we. Indeed, we are subsidizing the oil industry already - and have been subsidizing what little motion there is towards building a domestic renewables capability.

                        And all of this ignores the fact that the U.S. is locked into "short-term" economic thinking, and China is positioning itself for the long term. At the rate we are going, China will be the new superpower, and the U.S. will slip further behind. That is the inevitable outcome of this short-term thinking and the current twin philosophy of nationalism/isolationism.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment

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