‘Alarming’ Study Claiming Global Warming Heating Up Oceans Based on Math Error

[JimL]

YouÂ’re oversimplifying. Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal what with Global temperature rises, Warming oceans, Shrinking ice sheets, Glacial retreat, Decreased snow cover, Sea level rise, Declining Arctic sea ice and Extreme events such as the record disastrous forest fires in California and Australia.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

So, why are you and your supporters hell-bent upon diminishing the importance and concern over global warming given the demonstrable drastic consequences for the planet?

Not to mention the fact that even should we be wrong, switching to alternative energy sources is both good for the economy, creates many new jobs and makes for a cleaner healthier environment to boot. So there is no reason, there was no reason 40 years ago, not to begin the process of weening ourselves off fossil fuels, other than the fossil fuel industry's lobbyist stuffing the campaign chests of republican politicians who then lie to their constituents who, lemmings that they are, tend to believe whatever their reps tell them.

[One Bad Pig]

Not to mention the fact that even should we be wrong, switching to alternative energy sources is both good for the economy, creates many new jobs and makes for a cleaner healthier environment to boot. So there is no reason, there was no reason 40 years ago, not to begin the process of weening ourselves off fossil fuels, other than the fossil fuel industry's lobbyist stuffing the campaign chests of republican politicians who then lie to their constituents who, lemmings that they are, tend to believe whatever their reps tell them.

In what alternative universe is paying through the nose for (subsidized) alternative energy "good" for the economy?

[Starlight]

In what alternative universe is paying through the nose for (subsidized) alternative energy "good" for the economy?

Fossil fuels are hugely subsidized in the US, so not sure why you'd contrast the subsidies for alternative energy in this way.

But to answer the economic question, my brother and I were discussing yesterday why we would both like to see our own govt do a huge solar panel construction project. It would be economically stimulative because:
1. As a govt expenditures of $$$ it creates that jobs of the people receiving that $$$. The area where I was suggesting the solar panels go in is quite poor and it would be good to see jobs created in that area installing and maintaining the solar farm.
2. Increasing the electricity supply in the country, relative to demand, results in cheaper electricity prices. And if every business in the country is paying lower costs for electricity, then their goods can be less expensive, customers can afford to buy more of their goods, they will then need to hire more workers to produce more goods, etc.

[lilpixieofterror]

Fossil fuels are hugely subsidized in the US, so not sure why you'd contrast the subsidies for alternative energy in this way.

But to answer the economic question, my brother and I were discussing yesterday why we would both like to see our own govt do a huge solar panel construction project. It would be economically stimulative because:
1. As a govt expenditures of $$$ it creates that jobs of the people receiving that $$$. The area where I was suggesting the solar panels go in is quite poor and it would be good to see jobs created in that area installing and maintaining the solar farm.
2. Increasing the electricity supply in the country, relative to demand, results in cheaper electricity prices. And if every business in the country is paying lower costs for electricity, then their goods can be less expensive, customers can afford to buy more of their goods, they will then need to hire more workers to produce more goods, etc.

What do you do when it’s dark?

[Starlight]

What do you do when it’s dark?

The bulk of my country's power generation is hydro which can easily be stop-started at different times of day to balance out any load change from solar.

If your point is that solar doesn't increase the electricity supply at night and thus doesn't decrease the night-time electricity spot price, then I would note that the majority of businesses do not operate at night so this would not affect them.

[Cow Poke]

The bulk of my country's power generation is hydro which can easily be stop-started at different times of day to balance out any load change from solar.

If your point is that solar doesn't increase the electricity supply at night and thus doesn't decrease the night-time electricity spot price, then I would note that the majority of businesses do not operate at night so this would not affect them.

Isn't your solar "banked" in batteries at night?

[Starlight]

Isn't your solar "banked" in batteries at night?

Existing solar installations here are piecemeal and privately owned and would vary widely on how they work. There is no large solar power station to the best of my knowledge nor any large battery banks. Perhaps you are thinking of the recent Tesla battery installation that took place in Aus?

I haven't looked into it in detail, but I've heard some of the Nordic countries instead of using batteries to store power instead pump water in reverse back into their hydro-lakes so it can subsequently go through the hydro stations again when more power is needed. Seems like a cleaner method than batteries, which can be rather expensive and use rare materials that aren't always very environmentally friendly in and of themselves.

[JimL]

In what alternative universe is paying through the nose for (subsidized) alternative energy "good" for the economy?

For one thing, where do you get the idea that you will be paying through the nose? The more prominent alternative energies become, the less they will cost the consumers. Also, being labor intensive they will also provide many high paying jobs. But, how much do you think the clean up and rebuilding due to these environmental tragedies such as hurricanes, forest fires, due to climate change, end up costing the tax payers, and will continue to end up costing them even more in the future if we continue in that direction? Not to mention the rise in property and health Insurance premiums? Alternative energies will end up costing us all a lot less than fossil fuels cost us overall and in generaal we'll all be much healthier to boot.

[Cow Poke]

Existing solar installations here are piecemeal and privately owned and would vary widely on how they work. There is no large solar power station to the best of my knowledge nor any large battery banks. Perhaps you are thinking of the recent Tesla battery installation that took place in Aus?

No, I just didn't know of your country's use of battery banking for solar, so I asked. My barn and storage shed are both powered by solar banked in batteries, as is all my outdoor lighting, but - like you said - it's piecemeal and privately owned.

[Cow Poke]

I haven't looked into it in detail, but I've heard some of the Nordic countries instead of using batteries to store power instead pump water in reverse back into their hydro-lakes so it can subsequently go through the hydro stations again when more power is needed. Seems like a cleaner method than batteries, which can be rather expensive and use rare materials that aren't always very environmentally friendly in and of themselves.

Interesting you should say that.... I helped a guy retrofit an old warehouse that had a water-operated elevator. Seriously, there's a tank of water that counters the weight of the elevator and load, and you literally turn a faucet to allow water to flow - kinda like a submarine uses water to submerge and surface. What we did, though, was add a solar powered pump to return the water to the tank, instead of constantly using 'new' water and allowing it to drain.

The gamechanger, however, with my solar power around the ranch came when LED lighting became so much less expensive*, and in way more forms than just "bulbs". Because the LED uses less power, the batteries don't need to be near as substantial, or the solar panels so large.


*initially, I really couldn't justify the huge difference in cost of the LED vs CFLs or whatever, but as so often happens, as more people buy LED lights, the cost continues to decrease.

[Sparko]

You’re oversimplifying. Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal what with Global temperature rises, Warming oceans, Shrinking ice sheets, Glacial retreat, Decreased snow cover, Sea level rise, Declining Arctic sea ice and Extreme events such as the record disastrous forest fires in California and Australia.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

So, why are you and your supporters hell-bent upon diminishing the importance and concern over global warming given the demonstrable drastic consequences for the planet?

So a wildfire is evidence of global warming but a blizzard is just weather?

[JimL]

So a wildfire is evidence of global warming but a blizzard is just weather?

Sheesh, just do some reading or something will you!

[shunyadragon]

Many solar powered facilities are connected into a greater utility grid, and excess electricity in daylight goes into the grid, and at night the electricity needed comes from the grid. In the case of Iceland the greater power grid is likely hydroelectric or possibly geothermal, and batteries would not be needed.

Isolated solar systems would require batteries.

[Sparko]

Sheesh, just do some reading or something will you!

That's not an answer. But then I was talking to Tassman, not you. Sheesh, why don't you go take a drink or something?

[One Bad Pig]

For one thing, where do you get the idea that you will be paying through the nose?

Experience.

The more prominent alternative energies become, the less they will cost the consumers. Also, being labor intensive they will also provide many high paying jobs.

You do realize that something requiring many high paying jobs will be MORE costly to consumers, yes? The workers' pay doesn't magically appear from nowhere.

But, how much do you think the clean up and rebuilding due to these environmental tragedies such as hurricanes, forest fires, due to climate change, end up costing the tax payers, and will continue to end up costing them even more in the future if we continue in that direction? Not to mention the rise in property and health Insurance premiums? Alternative energies will end up costing us all a lot less than fossil fuels cost us overall and in generaal we'll all be much healthier to boot.

Assuming theories linking environmental tragedies to climate change are accurate, yes. So far, that assumption has not been borne out.