Is the Roman Papal System the Antichrist system?

[Jude3b]

The Greek word (anti) in scripture most nearly denotes something that is "in place of" another thing. The root meaning is, "instead of" or "in place of." It is not the original but a substitution, not Christ but a substitute for Christ. Instead of Christ a false Christ an Antichrist.
The early Christian church was persecuted heavily for the truth. Christians were publicly crucified, given to the Lions to be eaten and burned. The year 311 AD, the persecution ended, when Constantine became the Roman emperor, he embraced Christianity. This was the falling away of the church of God. The churches that began in homes disappeared as churches were built for worship, bishops and preachers received good salaries from the State. Now it was an honor to become a Christian, pagans were turned into Christianity not because of true repentance but to gain honor and popularity. Before the church of God was called Catholic, meaning the true universal church of God, the body of Christ. It was the ekklesia, or the "called out ones of God." Now the church began to be ruled by Rome and became the Roman Catholic, the apostate church.
Does 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, John 14:16&17; and John 16:7,13,14 indicate that the Roman Papal System is the Antichrist system?
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

Tell me Jude: Should we abandon the Trinity, seeing as how it was defined as dogma at the First Nicean Council, which was held by the Catholic Church, and started by Constantine?

[Jude3b]

Dear SpL: By no means should Christians abandon the teaching about the Trinity. Christians should not abandon any doctrine that is Biblical. Obviously the Trinity is clearly taught througout the Bible. It can even be seen as far back as the book of Genesis. It is however much more easily understood in the New Testament. Sincerely, Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

Dear SpL: By no means should Christians abandon the teaching about the Trinity. Christians should not abandon any doctrine that is Biblical. Obviously the Trinity is clearly taught througout the Bible. It can even be seen as far back as the book of Genesis. It is however much more easily understood in the New Testament. Sincerely, Jude 3b

How do you know that it is Biblical and Arianism or Modalism is not?

[John Reece]

The Greek word (anti) in scripture most nearly denotes something that is "in place of" another thing. The root meaning is, "instead of" or "in place of." It is not the original but a substitution, not Christ but a substitute for Christ. Instead of Christ a false Christ an Antichrist.
The early Christian church was persecuted heavily for the truth. Christians were publicly crucified, given to the Lions to be eaten and burned. The year 311 AD, the persecution ended, when Constantine became the Roman emperor, he embraced Christianity. This was the falling away of the church of God. The churches that began in homes disappeared as churches were built for worship, bishops and preachers received good salaries from the State. Now it was an honor to become a Christian, pagans were turned into Christianity not because of true repentance but to gain honor and popularity. Before the church of God was called Catholic, meaning the true universal church of God, the body of Christ. It was the ekklesia, or the "called out ones of God." Now the church began to be ruled by Rome and became the Roman Catholic, the apostate church.
Does 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, John 14:16&17; and John 16:7,13,14 indicate that the Roman Papal System is the Antichrist system?
Sincerely, Jude 3b

Jude 3b,

Short answer to your question: No.

Longer answer:

1) 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 does not contain any reference that fits the biblical definition of "antichrist" (found in 1 & 2 John).

2) The man of lawlessness/sin in 2 Thessalonians 2 proclaims himself to be God. To say that the Pope proclaims himself to be God is gross and grievous slander.

• 2 Thessalonians 2
  
  3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (ESV)

3) I do not see how John 14:16-17 and John 16:7,13,14 support your assertion that the Roman Catholic Church is an antichrist system.

• John 14
  
  16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
  
  John 16
  
  7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
  12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

The scriptures you have quoted do not support your thesis, and your insistence that they do strikes me as fanatical.

Blessings,

John

[Jude3b]

"anti" means against or opposed to. The Papacy places itself as the head of the church. It is not the head. Only Christ is the head. "And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church..." (Col. 1:18)
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[Twilly Spree]

Jude, I'm so tired of this.

Did your mom like make you go to CCD against your will or something? Is that why you're this angry at Catholicism?

[rocketman]

Jude, for the last time, the Pope is not the head of the Church. Jesus is. The pope has divine authority to guide the Church in matters of faith, morals, and doctrine until Jesus returns to the world.

[Rev John Hansen]

Dear Rocketman:
DON'T YOU BELIEVE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CATECHISM?Say what you want, but the Catechism states:
"For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." (Page 234, #882). "The Roman Pontiff...as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful..." (Page 235, #891). "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls" (Pg. 246,
#937).
Wonder why God didn't tell us in the Bible that He was sending the pope as the Vicar of Christ? Why does the Roman Catholic church want the pope to be your teacher instead of the Holy Spirit of God?
Luv ya........

[Twilly Spree]

882
The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."

Have to look at the entire thing there chief. Same with #891, you conviently took out the entire middle of that line. #937 from the summary section again. You can't just pull out a few quotes from the Catchism and start assuming things. I can pull out quotes from anywhere and make them say things they don't mean. It's alot of fun. For example I could quote you:

DON'T YOU BELIEVE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CATECHISM?

Taken out of context it looks like YOU believe the Catechism.

[rocketman]

John/Jude, nowhere does it say "The Pope is the Head of the Church". He does guide the earthly church, and he upholds and preserves its teachings. But he is not the head. The Catechism never says he is.

[rocketman]

Danke, Twilly.

[Jude3b]

You all can play with words - but supreme pastor of all the church sounds like the head guy to me!

How about some Biblical support for a Pope. Do you have any?

Jude 3b

[Twilly Spree]

We can play with words?!?! Dude Jude you're like the king of word play! That's all you do there chief. I still think you have some repressed feelings coming through here.


No problema Rocketman, you're knowledge blows me away. I can just point out the obvious stuff

[Jude3b]

It's time to get this thread back on the topic and question asked!!! Here we go:
The woman in Revelation chapter 17 was "arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and DECKED with gold and precious stones and pearls." The religious system symbolized by this woman does know some truth, but how much do her members live? Yes, she has some truth stuck on here and there, in an effort to appear as the true bride of Christ, and she has deceived many. Even John marveled when he saw her.
In verse five John tells us, "Upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTER, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Now it is not my desire to hurt people or to say harsh cutting words, but we must be true to the Word of God. Regardless of how much Roman Catholic people feel this religious system, symbolized by this woman, has done, it still remains a fact that she is an abomination to the peoples of this world! She has not been a blessing, she has not done the people good; she has not led people to the true Christ; she has not held up the standard of truth (the Bible); she is not the true church of God; she is empowered by the spirit of the mystery of iniquity Paul spoke of, which was already at work in his day. She is guilty of fornication (spiritually). She is guilty of the death of saints. "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus (verse 6). Her power went to her head, as it were, and she became drunk with her power and influence with the religious and civil leaders. She is not only responsible for the death of saints, but she is guilty of millions being lost eternally. Who is she? THIS WOMAN IS A SYMBOL OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH! Just as the pure holy woman in Revelation 12 is a symbol of the true church of God, so this vile, wicked woman is a symbol of a false, sinful church.
Sincerely, Jude 3b