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BGV theorem
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It is possible like our multi-verse have many if not infinite universes. There is the possibility of many multiverse.
I believe it is premature to to that anything 'has to have a beginning.'
To add I do not believe that the BGV Theorem is universally accepted by physicists.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-18-2018, 08:10 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe it is premature to to that anything 'has to have a beginning.'
To add I do not believe that the BGV Theorem is universally accepted by physicists.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut doesn't the BGV Theorem say that any universe that on average, expands, has to have a beginning?
Well, it was peer-reviewed and published, and has not that I know of, been refuted.
Blessings,
Lee[/QUOTE]
In terms of universes beginning Virtually all cosmologists do not propose an absolute beginning. It is almost universally accepted that all possible universe began from something.
Being peer reviewed and published in this case does not justify the conclusion that universes nor possible multiverses 'have to have a beginning.' There are several different hypothesis concerning the nature of the origins of universe even a possible cyclic model that have not been refuted.
For the most part I consider these questions unresolved either way with a number of possibilities give the present hypothesis and models.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostBeing peer reviewed and published in this case does not justify the conclusion that universes nor possible multiverses 'have to have a beginning.'
There are several different hypothesis concerning the nature of the origins of universe even a possible cyclic model that have not been refuted.
For the most part I consider these questions unresolved either way with a number of possibilities give the present hypothesis and models.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostAs I understand it, the theorem's conclusion is that universes that expand on average have an absolute beginning.
There are ways to get around the BGV theorem, but these involve speculation.
Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-19-2018, 08:53 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI do not consider this an absolute beginning, because it is a beginning from preexisting energy.
There is the possibility of a cyclic universe.
I believe the interpretation of the BGV theorem does involve speculation. It is not the only game in town
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut doesn't the BGV Theorem say that any universe that on average, expands, has to have a beginning?
None of this is of any help to Xtian apologetics, even the 'we call this God' variety.Last edited by Roy; 11-20-2018, 06:11 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo. AIUI, the BGV theorem assumes the universe had a beginning, and shows that the period of expansion must have a beginning.
So no assumption of a beginning.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
The view that the universe has a beginning from preexisting energy is almost universally accepted among physics and cosmology. The view that the multiverse must have a beginning is a matter of speculation and interpretation based on the BVG theorem, and NOT universally accepted.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
You aren't even quoting Craig who's quoting Krauss who's quoting Vilenkin.
You're quoting Craig arguing that Krauss is not quoting Vilenkin.
You've been caught using misleading 'quotes' previously. So has Craig.
So there's no reason to believe Vilenkin actually wrote that.Last edited by Roy; 11-21-2018, 07:45 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostYou're quoting Craig arguing that Krauss is not quoting Vilenkin.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostNo, I'm quoting Craig quoting Vilenkin, and the quote shows that the BGV theorem does not assume a beginning.
Blessings,
LeeGlendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostNo, I'm quoting Craig quoting Vilenkin, ...
So there's still no reason to believe Vilenkin actually wrote that.and the quote shows that the BGV theorem does not assume a beginning.
Reading the surrounding context shows that even if Vilenkin did write the text Craig presents, he added possible exceptions and circumstances in which his theory wouldn't apply - which typically you have ignored.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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I believe that the view that the BGV theorem determines that the multiverse 'has to have a beginning' is flawed according to Guth who describes our universe being possibly in a pocket 'universe (pocket multiverse a possibly having a beginning).
This is an interesting article, because it cites different scientists and their perspective including some skeptics like Davies.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-22-2018, 06:23 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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