Thoughts on Capitalism and Socialism as economic models

[rogue06]

Me?



I have repeatedly said I don't like Trump as a person, that he is a complete narcissist, rude, and doesn't think before speaking.

In all honesty, from what I've seen, I woulda much rather enjoyed a couple beers while talking with Bill Clinton and possibly even Barack Obama than I would with Trump.

[carpedm9587]

Well, thank you for your superiority, Carp.

It's not a matter of "superiority," Sparko. It's what you have done multiple times. If you don't want it pointed out - stop doing it. If you don't care about it - why complain about it being pointed out?

You sarcasm here seems odd. I believe it is better to accept what someone else tells me about themselves when I cannot know what the truth actually is. You (apparently) prefer to come to your own conclusions and reject what the other person says if it disagrees with your "perception." If that's what you like - embrace it! Pointing it out should not be an issue...

...unless some part of you recognizes that it's really not a very good way to function. The fact that you just accused ME of it, seems to suggest that.

In short - you seem a little conflicted on this...

[carpedm9587]

Openly despising one's own country seems to largely be a uniquely American liberal trait.

Many of us who call on our country to be better do so because we want it to BE consistent with its values. MLK didn't "hate the country" and nor do any of the liberals or Democrats I know. They often hate what the country (or more specifically the leaders, politicians, and powerful business brokers) is DOING, not what it IS. You call that "hate" and I call that "holding to account." Someone has to be willing to speak truth to power.

[carpedm9587]

Free Market is an economic model of capitalism. It doesn't mean no regulations at all. At least not to me. I think for the most part the market works without any regulations. But sometimes I think the government might need to step in to prevent things like unfair practices, monopolies, criminal actions, etc.

I think we can all agree that "criminal actions" are unwanted - hence our body of laws. "Unfair practices" is pretty vague. Can you identify an example of an "unfair practice" that was addressed by a regulation, or set of regulations, of which you approve(d)?

As for monopolies...aren't they just the free market in operation? If you have a great product everyone wants, why does it matter if you dominate the market? Why does "free market capitalism" not simply acknowledge that it will sometimes give rise to monopolies? Such is life, and move on...

[Mountain Man]

Many of us who call on our country to be better do so because we want it to BE consistent with its values. MLK didn't "hate the country" and nor do any of the liberals or Democrats I know. They often hate what the country (or more specifically the leaders, politicians, and powerful business brokers) is DOING, not what it IS. You call that "hate" and I call that "holding to account." Someone has to be willing to speak truth to power.

Modern day liberals are no MLK.

[Cow Poke]

These things I have not seen, so I'll accept the correction. You know best your own mind and views.

Thank you, CP, for helping correct my incorrect perception of Sparko.

Carpe

[carpedm9587]

Modern day liberals are no MLK.

None of us can claim to be MLK, MM - and I never suggested as much. I pointed to a man who spoke unceasingly about the practices of the U.S. - without ever hating the U.S. That was the point - which you seem to have missed.

[carpedm9587]

Thank you, CP, for helping correct my incorrect perception of Sparko.

Carpe

I'm missing something. I thought that (the response you quoted) was a response to Sparko...?

[Cow Poke]

I'm missing something. I thought that (the response you quoted) was a response to Sparko...?

It's me pretending to be you thanking me for being so charming.

[Mountain Man]

None of us can claim to be MLK, MM - and I never suggested as much. I pointed to a man who spoke unceasingly about the practices of the U.S. - without ever hating the U.S. That was the point - which you seem to have missed.

I didn't miss your point, but you seem to have missed mine.

[carpedm9587]

It's me pretending to be you thanking me for being so charming.

I would NEVER make that mistake...

[carpedm9587]

I didn't miss your point, but you seem to have missed mine.

I doubt it.

Sometimes I wonder if you understand the differences between "missing the point" and "disagreeing with the point."

[Cow Poke]

I would NEVER make that mistake...

It's OK - I made it for you!

[carpedm9587]

It's OK - I made it for you!

That would make it YOUR mistake...

[Starlight]

As for monopolies...aren't they just the free market in operation?... Why does "free market capitalism" not simply acknowledge that it will sometimes give rise to monopolies?

I've been increasingly noticing how much "free market" ideologues tend to bizarrely assume that a free market is somehow natural as opposed to being a construct of a regulatory state.

In a real free market, the stronger guy punches the weaker guy and takes all his stuff.

As human society progressed from outright barbarism to feudalism, humans grouped together, and then in that free market the stronger groups killed the weaker groups and took all their stuff.

And then as feudalism progressed to mercantilism / colonialism, in the free world market the stronger nations sent people out to plunder the weaker nations and take all their stuff.

In the modern world the democratic governments are now expected to have a complex series of laws and regulatory balances that stop people and groups taking each others stuff, and instead they put a lot of effort into creating and sustaining a "free market", and they try and stop the various people and groups from sabotaging that free market for their own gains which they regularly try to do. Meanwhile a lot of people participating in the 'free market' are doing their best to rig the market in their own favor as much as possible and inventing all sorts of anti-competitive practices to gain an advantage over others and tip the balance of the system in their favor. And the modern state and its enforcement branches do their best to keep up, and keep a lid on the many and various sabotages that individuals and companies try to perform on the system, and to keep the free market operating in a manner that at least somewhat resembles a free market.

So whenever I come across the idea that "if only there were less government then the market would be freer", or the idea that the "free market" is some sort of natural phenomena which would exist in its purest form if only we didn't have a pesky government getting in our way, I tend to roll my eyes. The "free market" is pretty literally a construct created and maintained by a strong regulatory state.