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Thread: Things not spoken into existence.

  1. #81
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    I'm saying that if the law in Deuteronomy 13 was still in place you would received the punishment of a false prophet.
    The penalty for false prophets still stands.

    Yes, you kind of have. Here is the evidence of you doing so.
    You misunderstand. The prophets are listed in scripture. There are no other prophets. Doesn't mean one cannot prophesy. For instance, when I say that what the prophets have declared concerning the end is at hand... even at the door, I am speaking prophetically. And this I do speak and will continue to do so. The history of the sects that I presented to you is accurate and in just a little while the great harlot along with her wayward daughters will be stripped from head to toe. The beast they have formed has been overrun by the secular lawless who will ravage them without mercy. Am I speaking a lie just because I tell what is shortly to come? Though I prophecy I am not a prophet... since what I say the prophets of old have already declared.


    You're not doing anything "according to the scriptures", because you are ignoring the parts that don't agree with you.
    No... this is what you are doing along with all who continue perpetuating false doctrine. The scriptures are clear yet men have thought to add their deductions and command men to believe them under threat of condemnation. These are like Uzzah who reached forth his hand to steady the ark and was struck dead according to God's command.

    There isn't anything wrong with a truly glorified man, as in a human who has received their glorified body from God at the eschaton. In effect saying Jesus is merely a glorified man is blasphemous since He claimed, and showed His deity.
    See, Cerebrum, I have nowhere denied the Deity of my Lord. The Word he embodied signifies his Deity because the Word is God. Denying that the man Jesus Christ (the ONLY begotten Son) existed in eternity past only denies your deduction of what you believe Deity to be. Proof... you cannot show me a command of God that I am to believe your deduction... which you earlier confessed it to be.

    If you think Abraham was perfect you haven't read through Genesis lately, nor do you have a good understanding of human nature. Abraham laughed when God told him about having an heir come from Sarah, who was around 90 years old. The same thing Sarah was chastised for later. He also gave a half truth to Abimelek about his wife Sarah. There isn't anything in the text to suggest Abimilek had done anything to deserve being misled either. He did the same to Pharoah in Egypt when he was still called Abram. Then he also tried to make God's promise happen by having sex with Hagar, and thus Ishmael was born. No indication that he married her either, so that would be adultery.
    Abraham obeyed all of God's commands and statutes without fail. Whatever standard you are using to accuse is not binding and whatever you say against him you say against God. Do you even understand the the grace of God and the process of justification by faith? You speak as if you do not.

    Romans 13:4-6 New International Version (NIV)
    4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

    1 Corinthians 16:15-17 New International Version (NIV)
    15 You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the Lord’s people. I urge you, brothers and sisters, 16 to submit to such people and to everyone who joins in the work and labors at it. 17 I was glad when Stephanas, Fortunatus and Achaicus arrived, because they have supplied what was lacking from you.

    Hebrews 13:16-18 New International Version (NIV)
    16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

    17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

    1 Peter 5:5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

    1 Peter 2:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
    12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

    13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

    So much for the Bible not saying to submit to any man in any way.

    You say a voice came to you, and obviously think it is either from God, or from one of his angels. The problem is it contradicts His word, and therefor can't be either.

    1 John 4:1 [ On Denying the Incarnation ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    You haven't found sound doctrine, and reject parts of the Bible in order to hear what you want to hear.

    Hebrews 13:9 [Full Chapter]
    Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so.

    1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

    2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

    1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

    Titus 2:1 [ Doing Good for the Sake of the Gospel ] You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine.

    I take all of the Bible seriously, so I'm trying to get you to see where you've gone against sound doctrine. In case you don't listen, we are commanded to refute false doctrines.

    Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
    You will not find me in disobedience to any of these scriptures. In obedience to my Lord I humbly submit to every authority he has placed over me. Those who claim to know Him but do not... I flee from, just as I am also commanded. Now I am contending for the one true faith that is nearly nonexistent within organized orthodoxy... again according to the law of faith. You find fault with the father of faith and obviously with me as well. Yet you cannot see that your standard is flawed. You should seek God alone...
    Last edited by Jeff; 12-09-2018 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #82
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    The penalty for false prophets still stands.
    So where are the regular stonings for those who have falsely prophesied the end in recent times?

    You misunderstand. The prophets are listed in scripture. There are no other prophets. Doesn't mean one cannot prophesy. For instance, when I say that what the prophets have declared concerning the end is at hand... even at the door, I am speaking prophetically. And this I do speak and will continue to do so. The history of the sects that I presented to you is accurate and in just a little while the great harlot along with her wayward daughters will be stripped from head to toe. The beast they have formed has been overrun by the secular lawless who will ravage them without mercy. Am I speaking a lie just because I tell what is shortly to come? Though I prophecy I am not a prophet... since what I say the prophets of old have already declared.
    You are admitting to being one who prophecies, that is what a prophet is.

    No... this is what you are doing along with all who continue perpetuating false doctrine. The scriptures are clear yet men have thought to add their deductions and command men to believe them under threat of condemnation. These are like Uzzah who reached forth his hand to steady the ark and was struck dead according to God's command.

    You're the one who is ignoring passages that doesn't agree with you. The Bible says to not add or subtract from what God says.

    Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

    Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

    You accuse me of adding, but the truth is you are subtracting.

    See, Cerebrum, I have nowhere denied the Deity of my Lord. The Word he embodied signifies his Deity because the Word is God. Denying that the man Jesus Christ (the ONLY begotten Son) existed in eternity past only denies your deduction of what you believe Deity to be. Proof... you cannot show me a command of God that I am to believe your deduction... which you earlier confessed it to be.
    Jesus Christ is the Word/Logos. They are the same person. If you won't believe me, at least believe what the Bible clearly teaches on the matter. Jesus Himself claimed not only preexistence, but to be Yahweh Himself. This is something you keep ignoring, because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

    John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    If you really go and study you can see that before He was known as Jesus, He was known as "The Angel of the LORD". One who is both a separate person from the Father, yet still fully God.

    Abraham obeyed all of God's commands and statutes without fail. Whatever standard you are using to accuse is not binding and whatever you say against him you say against God. Do you even understand the the grace of God and the process of justification by faith? You speak as if you do not.

    You said Abraham was perfect, and your implying he was perfect throughout his life. One of God's commands is "Thou shall not commit adultery", which based on the evidence we have Abraham did. Abraham being justified by his faith does not mean he never sinned. The only person who never sinned was Jesus. Justification by faith means we will no longer be held accountable for past sin, not that it never happened in the first place. David is one who is also said to be justified, and was said to be "a man after God's own heart". However he still murdered Uriah, and committed adultery. Then Paul, who wrote about justification by faith called himself the worst of sinners. There is someone here who doesn't understand the concept, but it isn't me.

    Romans 3:23 [Full Chapter]
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    You will not find me in disobedience to any of these scriptures. In obedience to my Lord I humbly submit to every authority he has placed over me. Those who claim to know Him but do not... I flee from, just as I am also commanded. Now I am contending for the one true faith that is nearly nonexistent within organized orthodoxy... again according to the law of faith. You find fault with the father of faith and obviously with me as well. Yet you cannot see that your standard is flawed. You should seek God alone...
    You've sought a god of your own making. I'm sticking with the God revealed in Scripture. You are the one who specifically said that there was no command anywhere in Scripture to obey other authorities in any way. You made an unqualified statement that was untrue. I agree that we are to obey God over obeying men, but that wasn't your original claim.

    You are the one using a standard of your own making, and don't even realize how crooked it is. The real standard for anyone calling themselves a Christian is to be Scripture. You are merely leaning on your own understanding.

  3. #83
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    No Trinity Sparko. Father, Son, Spirit converge in the fullness of time in Yeshua / Jesus. In order to place these in eternity past one would have to imagine flesh to be eternally existing there too. The Word made flesh is the man Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God. There is no other begotten Son. Begotten of woman not formed from the dust of the ground.

    It's so very simple. Mary was his mother, true God was his Father. Hence, "...the Holy Spirit fell upon Mary and she became with child...". Don't you see, then, that the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Father? ...and consider this miracle of all miracles through this lense: "...I knitted you together in your mother's womb...". Yeshua as a child encountered these words in a Synagogue and heard the voice of his Father (and ours), that He was speaking of him. Glorious!

    In my heart and mind, Sparko, Yeshua, the Messiah, Son of the Living God is SOOOO far above the Trinitarian concept ...that I cannot even find the words. It means that when I finally see him face to face I will truly be like he is. A glorified man. The anointing I have from my Father has taught me these things.
    Except the bible says God doesn't change and is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. Your version would have God and the Holy Spirit merging together into something new and changing who God is.

    And basically you just admitted that you don't care what the bible says because you think you have some special annotated knowledge direct from God.

  4. #84
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    The penalty for false prophets still stands.



    You misunderstand. The prophets are listed in scripture. There are no other prophets.
    I guess that means you just admitted to being a FALSE prophet then. You wanted to post your prophesies in a thread.

  5. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  6. #85
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I guess that means you just admitted to being a FALSE prophet then. You wanted to post your prophesies in a thread.
    Hello Sparko. So, prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit to the church. Are these counted as prophets as those whose words are recorded in scripture? If you listen to all the voices that inundate the airways these days half of what everyone speaks is a form of prophecy. I could most likely search your own posts... and the posts of anyone here, and point out all manner of prediction based in religion, science, politics, etc.. Right? Prophecy in a general sense is everywhere all the time. Though I would not put myself as among those who would prophesy aimlessly. What I would assert is backed by the true prophets of God. Can you not discern the times? The signs are quite obvious.

    So, there is one who doesn't prophesy, but is full of accusations. Seems you are fluent in the language of him.

    Lastly, if what I have said is coming quickly does not... then I will confess and repent in dust and ashes. If, however, you see it coming then you should do the same. Fair?
    Last edited by Jeff; 12-10-2018 at 11:22 PM.

  7. #86
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Except the bible says God doesn't change and is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. Your version would have God and the Holy Spirit merging together into something new and changing who God is.
    Well, I agree that you say that's what the bible says. But the bible has no breath in it and cannot speak at all. Though it does testify of One who can. Will you not go to Him?

    God does not change, Sparko. You are correct. Yet you are conflating God's thoughts and ways with substances. True God was once not in the form of Word... and the Word was not in the form of flesh and blood until the fullness of time. The scriptures are they that testify of this One. The convergence is Yeshua, Messiah of God. Now, did God send Himself? ...or did He send us His Son? A man in whom the fullness of God dwelt bodily, just as the scriptures testify.

    And basically you just admitted that you don't care what the bible says because you think you have some special annotated knowledge direct from God.
    And you have just confessed that you speak on your own.

  8. #87
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    So where are the regular stonings for those who have falsely prophesied the end in recent times?



    You are admitting to being one who prophecies, that is what a prophet is.




    You're the one who is ignoring passages that doesn't agree with you. The Bible says to not add or subtract from what God says.

    Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

    Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

    You accuse me of adding, but the truth is you are subtracting.



    Jesus Christ is the Word/Logos. They are the same person. If you won't believe me, at least believe what the Bible clearly teaches on the matter. Jesus Himself claimed not only preexistence, but to be Yahweh Himself. This is something you keep ignoring, because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

    John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    If you really go and study you can see that before He was known as Jesus, He was known as "The Angel of the LORD". One who is both a separate person from the Father, yet still fully God.




    You said Abraham was perfect, and your implying he was perfect throughout his life. One of God's commands is "Thou shall not commit adultery", which based on the evidence we have Abraham did. Abraham being justified by his faith does not mean he never sinned. The only person who never sinned was Jesus. Justification by faith means we will no longer be held accountable for past sin, not that it never happened in the first place. David is one who is also said to be justified, and was said to be "a man after God's own heart". However he still murdered Uriah, and committed adultery. Then Paul, who wrote about justification by faith called himself the worst of sinners. There is someone here who doesn't understand the concept, but it isn't me.

    Romans 3:23 [Full Chapter]
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,



    You've sought a god of your own making. I'm sticking with the God revealed in Scripture. You are the one who specifically said that there was no command anywhere in Scripture to obey other authorities in any way. You made an unqualified statement that was untrue. I agree that we are to obey God over obeying men, but that wasn't your original claim.

    You are the one using a standard of your own making, and don't even realize how crooked it is. The real standard for anyone calling themselves a Christian is to be Scripture. You are merely leaning on your own understanding.
    Hello Cerebrum. There is much here I wish to address. Too much to break up into three work nights. I have a four day weekend after Wednesday. I will respond then line by line. Thanks again for your willingness to engage. What will be happening with us during the terrible times that are coming is a unification... a true and living unity, as opposed to the eccumenacle kind the world strives for as we speak. They unify against us and will go all in in their efforts as the days go by.

    One thing you should know, and I hope you will perceive is I accuse no man before my God. If I speak what I know, and I must, it is for the true and not against. Please continue to bare with me if you will... despite the fact I seem a heretic to you. I do know that back in the old world I would not escape the wrath of the harlots and the beasts they rode then. It is different now and I may actually survive... maybe. Though I have offered even my own breath for this cause it would be awesome if I live long enough to see my Lord begin to revive His own works. It is coming... even at the door. My heart leaps within me... though the times will be dreadful indeed and part of me does not long for it. Even so, come...

  9. #88
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Unsubscribing. Buh Bye!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Hello Sparko. So, prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit to the church. Are these counted as prophets as those whose words are recorded in scripture? If you listen to all the voices that inundate the airways these days half of what everyone speaks is a form of prophecy. I could most likely search your own posts... and the posts of anyone here, and point out all manner of prediction based in religion, science, politics, etc.. Right? Prophecy in a general sense is everywhere all the time. Though I would not put myself as among those who would prophesy aimlessly. What I would assert is backed by the true prophets of God. Can you not discern the times? The signs are quite obvious.

    So, there is one who doesn't prophesy, but is full of accusations. Seems you are fluent in the language of him.

    Lastly, if what I have said is coming quickly does not... then I will confess and repent in dust and ashes. If, however, you see it coming then you should do the same. Fair?
    Yes, if you give prophesies, you are a prophet. That is what a prophet is. A prophet is someone who speaks for God. Who claims to hear from God and speaks what God tells him. Not predicting things but claiming to speak for God. Which YOU have done.



    Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ESV
    But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

    Jeremiah 23:16 ESV
    Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.

    Jeremiah 14:14 ESV
    And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.

    ==========
    - and Jesus and the apostles warns us about false prophets in the New Testament. You fit the bill.

    Matthew 7:15 ESV /
    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

    1 John 4:1-6 ESV
    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.

    Romans 16:17-18 ESV
    I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

    2 Peter 2:1 ESV
    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ESV
    For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
    Last edited by Sparko; 12-11-2018 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #90
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Yes, if you give prophesies, you are a prophet. That is what a prophet is. A prophet is someone who speaks for God. Who claims to hear from God and speaks what God tells him. Not predicting things but claiming to speak for God. Which YOU have done.
    Ya know Sparko, you are correct. I have heard my Lord's voice and have become afraid. And I am speaking those things that I have heard. And here is what I hear in you... that you are, however inadvertently, confessing that you do not hear Him (just an observation). So I am left thinking that whatever you speak as if from the Lord is false since you seem to be content with the interpretations of scripture you have determined in yourself to settle on. Yet our Lord said "...my sheep hear my voice...".

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ESV
    But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

    Jeremiah 23:16 ESV
    Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.

    Jeremiah 14:14 ESV
    And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.

    ==========
    - and Jesus and the apostles warns us about false prophets in the New Testament. You fit the bill.

    Matthew 7:15 ESV /
    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

    1 John 4:1-6 ESV
    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.

    Romans 16:17-18 ESV
    I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

    2 Peter 2:1 ESV
    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ESV
    For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
    Will you vainly continue to think I do not know the scriptures, Sparko? I haven't the time tonight to address all this. But I have a four day weekend coming up. Between you and Cerebrum you have managed to book it... except during the Chiefs / Chargers game. Even I need a break. The family will not be happy... but they've become used to my hating them before my Lord. Tune in this weekend. I will speak to you about the times and how it is that I know what is coming upon the earth. It's really not hard to figure.
    Last edited by Jeff; 12-12-2018 at 12:31 AM.

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