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Thread: US federal climate change report warns of threat to US economy and lives

  1. #111
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Some jokes are tasteless...
    That wasn't one of them.

  2. #112
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    That either shows an amazing lack of understanding of the repercussions of climate change, or an amazing amount of dismissal for the billions of people who live on or near the coast who will be negatively impacted by the now inevitable sea level rise. Given that the oceans have been a major avenue of commerce, port cities are common throughout the world. And there are entire countries that are at risk of disappearing. This to me, is the truly sad part about AGW - that the very countries that caused (and are causing it) are largely shrugging their shoulders or in denial, while most of the countries at risk for annihilation have contributed little to the problem. The lack of "taking responsibility" is breathtaking. But, of course, let's not do anything that might impact our wealth and economy, right?

    When did money become the highest moral choice for so many?
    I hate to break it to you but the sea level rise was inevitable anyway. With or without man's help. It may be faster because of us, but history shows it was inevitable none the less.

    I apologize but my the firewall in front of my work pc will not let me upload attachments. Look at how remarkably consistent the rises have been historically in Figure 4.5: https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth107/node/1496

    Look at how consistently CO2 rises have been and how sharp they always seem to be (figure 4.6). Usually before a pronounced cooling (glacial) period. I submit the earth will fair better warmer than cooler.
    Last edited by Littlejoe; 02-22-2019 at 08:14 AM.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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  3. #113
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    That wasn't one of them.
    Tasted like chicken.

  4. #114
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    That wasn't one of them.
    It was to me
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  5. #115
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    It was to me
    You're in a very miniscule minority in that case.

  6. #116
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    I submit the earth will fair better warmer than cooler.
    The Earth itself maybe. The 7.7 billion humans who rely on a stable climate system for their food supply and well being, not so much.

  7. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  8. #117
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    I hate to break it to you but the sea level rise was inevitable anyway. With or without man's help. It may be faster because of us, but history shows it was inevitable none the less.
    Agreed - but the rise is happening in an accelerated way, in the context of denial, with little/no help being given to those impacted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    I apologize but my the firewall in front of my work pc will not let me upload attachments. Look at how remarkably consistent the rises have been historically in Figure 4.5: https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth107/node/1496
    Agreed - but the rise is happening in an accelerated way, in the context of denial, with little/no help being given to those impacted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Look at how consistently CO2 rises have been and how sharp they always seem to be (figure 4.6). Usually before a pronounced cooling (glacial) period. I submit the earth will fair better warmer than cooler.
    Did you actually look at those charts? The data shows a geologically unique event underway, with projected CO2 levels to reach unprecedented levels (in the last million years) at an unprecedented rate. We are already seeing what appears to be another mass extinction event. And the last times that sea levels rose as they are projected to rise, we did not have billions of people living at the edge of the oceans.

    The casual dismissal of this reality, and joking about it, is (to me) somewhat unbelievable. I guess I should not be surprised. The lead and tobacco industries spewed the same masses of misinformation when their business model was threatened, and now the fossil fuels industry is doing the same thing. Then a huge percentage of those on the right swallow it, and go on the offensive under the banner of "government intrusion into business" and "will harm the economy." Thankfully, a lot of people who are more centrist and left leaning are willing to look at the situation, and attack the problem - rather than cave to the disinformation campaigns of the involved industries.

    Unfortunately, usually a great deal of harm is done before the disinformation can be overcome. We are still suffering from the choices/actions of the lead industry - and also from the tobacco industry. And unfortunately, it is usually the poor who are most impacted. This time, however, the rising sees will tend to most impact the seacoasts - and that is not usually where the poorest live.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. #118
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    You're in a very miniscule minority in that case.
    And that matters because...?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  10. #119
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Scientists say the dream of unlimited clean energy is about to come true

    In just 15 years, the U.S. will be producing unlimited amounts of nearly free, completely green energy. Not only would such an energy holy grail mean the end of humanity’s dependence on expensive fossil fuels, it would also be a panacea for climate change.

    Amazingly, this is not a science fiction. It’s actually about to become reality if a collaboration between MIT and Commonwealth Fusion Systems, a private company, is to be believed. The collaborators announced Friday in the journal Nature that they believe they are on the verge of cracking the code to nuclear fusion — and it could be commercially viable in just 15 years, according to The Guardian.

    So far, fusion has been an extremely expensive laboratory experiment that requires more energy inputs than it outputs. However, the collaborators believe they’ve found a way to reverse the math. Their system, built upon a new class of super high-temperature superconductors and small, ultra-powerful magnets, would, for the first time, allow for a fusion reaction that outputs more energy than it takes in.

    The collaborators’ breakthrough came about because they were able to use a new type of superconductors to produce small, powerful magnets, a key component of fusion reactors. The magnets create a field to hold the fusion reaction in place without it touching anything solid — thus solving the meltdown problem.

    In the past, it took lots of energy to power the magnets. The new magnets created by the collaborators, however, are smaller and need less energy. This means that, for the first time, their system produces more energy than it consumes.

    MIT and Commonwealth Fusion Systems’ plan isn’t pure theory — they’ve raised $50 million from Italian power company Eni to actually build a reactor. Their fusion experiment, called Sparc, will produce enough energy to power a small city.

    “The aspiration is to have a working power plant in time to combat climate change,” said Bob Mumgaard, CEO of Commonwealth Fusion Systems. “We think we have the science, speed and scale to put carbon-free fusion power on the grid in 15 years.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/science/scie...t-to-come-true

  11. #120
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Scientists say the dream of unlimited clean energy is about to come true

    In just 15 years, the U.S. will be producing unlimited amounts of nearly free, completely green energy. Not only would such an energy holy grail mean the end of humanity’s dependence on expensive fossil fuels, it would also be a panacea for climate change.

    Amazingly, this is not a science fiction. It’s actually about to become reality if a collaboration between MIT and Commonwealth Fusion Systems, a private company, is to be believed. The collaborators announced Friday in the journal Nature that they believe they are on the verge of cracking the code to nuclear fusion — and it could be commercially viable in just 15 years, according to The Guardian.

    So far, fusion has been an extremely expensive laboratory experiment that requires more energy inputs than it outputs. However, the collaborators believe they’ve found a way to reverse the math. Their system, built upon a new class of super high-temperature superconductors and small, ultra-powerful magnets, would, for the first time, allow for a fusion reaction that outputs more energy than it takes in.

    The collaborators’ breakthrough came about because they were able to use a new type of superconductors to produce small, powerful magnets, a key component of fusion reactors. The magnets create a field to hold the fusion reaction in place without it touching anything solid — thus solving the meltdown problem.

    In the past, it took lots of energy to power the magnets. The new magnets created by the collaborators, however, are smaller and need less energy. This means that, for the first time, their system produces more energy than it consumes.

    MIT and Commonwealth Fusion Systems’ plan isn’t pure theory — they’ve raised $50 million from Italian power company Eni to actually build a reactor. Their fusion experiment, called Sparc, will produce enough energy to power a small city.

    “The aspiration is to have a working power plant in time to combat climate change,” said Bob Mumgaard, CEO of Commonwealth Fusion Systems. “We think we have the science, speed and scale to put carbon-free fusion power on the grid in 15 years.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/science/scie...t-to-come-true
    That would be amazing - if it pans out. But we have been hearing about breakthroughs in fusion technology for decades now. Personally, I think our approach should not be a "wait and see." We should continue to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels by every mans possible, in the event that we DON'T see this breakthrough manifest.

    After all, we took the tax cut on the premise that "it would pay for itself" by growth in the economy. They were so certain, they didn't even bother writing a roll-back into the bill in the event that growth DIDN'T materialize (so much for confidence). We saw a miserly 0.5% rise in GDP growth, and now have a deficit of $1T. I'm not a fan of another "future promise." If it happens, awesome. Plan for the worst case.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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