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Missionary Killed on Remote Island

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  • #91
    The obvious implication being that he deserved to be killed.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      How do you know it was false?

      He went there to live with them and not just stand there and preach. That would entail learning their language from them and most likely learning what he could before he went there.
      I know it ("...he knew some very basic words and phrases, and that his plan was to learn more of their language... ") is a false impression because every source I can find about the North Sentinelese language says that it is not spoke by anyone other than the North Sentinelese - not even a few words. All communication by visitors over the years has been via gestures, and no-one has ever been there long enough to learn anything other than that their language isn't similar to others from nearby. Chau could not have learnt any of their language before he went there, because no-one else speaks it. As best I can tell, Chau's attempt to talk to the Sentinelese, as described by Chau himself, consisted of trying English and a bit of Xhosan.

      I also know it's a false impression because the article MM cited as his source for that impression doesn't include anything that supports that impression.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        This is Roy you're talking about, in a pissing contest with one of his favorite opponents, MM. If there is any possible way to construe what MM said in an unfavorable light, Roy can be counted on to do so.
        You're welcome to show how to construe "I was under the impression that he knew some very basic words and phrases..." any other way.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Gotta love how Yahoo India News reports on Chau's missionary activities:

          Source: How a well-oiled conversion factory tried to convert the Sentinelese people to Christianity


          New Delhi, Nov 29: It has become amply clear now that the American national killed by the Sentinelese tribe in Andaman and Nicobar was trying to enforce Christianity. The various notes and investigations following the death of John Allen Chau make it clear that he wanted to convert the people of the tribe to Christianity.

          However now, investigations have revealed that Chau may not have acted alone. It was a well planned mission with the sole intention of imposing Christianity in the island, the investigators have also learnt.


          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          "enforce Christianity"

          "imposing Christianity"

          Especially in the latter case they are attempting to give the impression that he was trying to force the Sentinelese natives to become Christian.
          My guess is that 'impression' of how evangelism proceeds was earned during the missionary activities of 1800's where it was a bit more aggressive. They may also be associating the force of British Imperialism with Christian missionary activities. While they are likely wrong in terms of how Chau intended to proceed, one should not dismiss that part of this 'impression' is sourced in an earned reputation from the past.

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Roy View Post
            You're welcome to show how to construe "I was under the impression that he knew some very basic words and phrases..." any other way.
            It is not an unreasonable impression, given that the article states Chau had prepared extensively for the trip. It's sort of an obvious preparation step. It MAY be a wrong impression, but it's certainly not unwarranted. Your assertions are also in contradiction with statements by Sparko and rogue above (posts 85 and 87, respectively). Sparko's, at least, is backed up by a source.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #96
              The one thing that concerns me is that it appears he was a graduate (or attendee) of Oral Roberts University, where "word of faith" might play a role in his believing he would be protected because of his faith.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                The one thing that concerns me is that it appears he was a graduate (or attendee) of Oral Roberts University, where "word of faith" might play a role in his believing he would be protected because of his faith.
                That is a possibility, I would agree. Though what I've heard does seem to indicate he was well aware of the fact he could die as a result of his efforts. "word of faith" doesn't teach that a Christian can't be Martyred. Though some of what it taught/teaches does lead many to expect God will necessarily protect them from most of the more common evils found in the world (err ... if one has enough faith) .

                Jim
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  That is a possibility, I would agree. Though what I've heard does seem to indicate he was well aware of the fact he could die as a result of his efforts. "word of faith" doesn't teach that a Christian can't be Martyred. Though some of what it taught/teaches does lead many to expect God will necessarily protect them from most of the more common evils found in the world.

                  Jim
                  Yes sir, it's kinda like the "handling snakes" thing --- I believe God can protect me from death from a snake bite, but I'm not going to invade their territory to tempt God in that way.

                  OTOH, If, for whatever reason, I sincerely believed God was leading in that direction.....

                  It's a tough one.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Here's an interesting definition, of sorts, of "word of faith", regarding faith....

                    Faith

                    Probably the most distinctive teaching of the word-faith movement is "an idealized and prescriptive conception of faith that diminishes the relational and personal dimensions of Christian spirituality... [They push] the logic of faith to an idealized and absolute conclusion"
                    source
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Here's an interesting definition, of sorts, of "word of faith", regarding faith....

                      Faith

                      Probably the most distinctive teaching of the word-faith movement is "an idealized and prescriptive conception of faith that diminishes the relational and personal dimensions of Christian spirituality... [They push] the logic of faith to an idealized and absolute conclusion"
                      source
                      That sounds like a good summary of my experience with that particular idea. Although sometimes I think there is a common interpretive paradigm that it comes from that manifests in other areas, so while many know better than to ascribe to it, similar thought processes produce other idealized dogmas that don't quite mesh with reality or even a more complete assessment of the whole of what scripture is saying. For another forum most likely though

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        That sounds like a good summary of my experience with that particular idea. Although sometimes I think there is a common interpretive paradigm that it comes from that manifests in other areas, so while many know better than to ascribe to it, similar thought processes produce other idealized dogmas that don't quite mesh with reality or even a more complete assessment of the whole of what scripture is saying. For another forum most likely though

                        Jim
                        Perhaps
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          It is not an unreasonable impression, given that the article states Chau had prepared extensively for the trip. It's sort of an obvious preparation step. It MAY be a wrong impression, but it's certainly not unwarranted.
                          I didn't say it wasn't unwarranted or unreasonable, I said it was false. It is.
                          Your assertions are also in contradiction with statements by Sparko and rogue above (posts 85 and 87, respectively). Sparko's, at least, is backed up by a source.
                          So? Sources can be wrong. This one contradicts many other sources, including Chau's own words.

                          I note you have been unable to construe MM's words to mean anything other than how I understood them - but have moved the goalposts rather than admitting it.
                          Last edited by Roy; 12-04-2018, 12:02 PM.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            I didn't say it wasn't unwarranted or unreasonable, I said it was false. It is.So? Sources can be wrong. This one contradicts many other sources, including Chau's own words.

                            I note you have been unable to construe MM's words to mean anything other than how I understood them - but have moved the goalposts rather than admitting it.
                            You said:
                            I also know it's a false impression because the article MM cited as his source for that impression doesn't include anything that supports that impression.
                            I showed that your assertion regarding the article was false. I pointed to Sparko and rogue's posts to show that your assertions are not uncontroverted. Are you going to back up your other assertions, or continue making erroneous accusations of goalpost shifting and hope that makes me shut up?
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              I showed that your assertion regarding the article was false.
                              No, you didn't, you cited a different article.
                              I pointed to Sparko and rogue's posts to show that your assertions are not uncontroverted. Are you going to back up your other assertions, or continue making erroneous accusations of goalpost shifting and hope that makes me shut up?
                              I've backed up my assertions. You are goalpost shifting.

                              You claimed I construed MM's words in an unfavourable light, but haven't found any other way to construe them. In fact, you're citing sources that suggest you construe them exactly how I did.

                              I won't waste any more time on this.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                I didn't say it wasn't unwarranted or unreasonable, I said it was false. It is.So? Sources can be wrong. This one contradicts many other sources, including Chau's own words.
                                except YOUR sources of course.
                                I note you have been unable to construe MM's words to mean anything other than how I understood them - but have moved the goalposts rather than admitting it.
                                You have to realize that your incessant nitpicking doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, right? It is just a debate tactic of yours that you routinely use to try to hobble your debate opponent and derail the thread into an argument about semantics instead of the actual points.


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