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All humans are descended from just two people...

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  • All humans are descended from just two people...

    Interesting...

    All humans are descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago, scientists claim

    Genetic 'bar codes' of five million animals from different species were surveyed
    The research deduced that humans and animals sprang from single pair
    This happened after a catastrophic event a long time after the last ice age

    https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-s...evolution.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sts-claim.html
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Interesting...
    What do you find interesting about it?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      What do you find interesting about it?
      1. That all humans and most animals are descended from a single pair.

      2. That the majority of species were wiped out about 100,000 years ago.

      To quote: The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.

      So how does that square with evolution? Past 100,000 years how can we even track our ancestors? And what was that catastrophic event?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        1. That all humans and most animals are descended from a single pair.

        2. That the majority of species were wiped out about 100,000 years ago.

        To quote: The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.

        So how does that square with evolution? Past 100,000 years how can we even track our ancestors? And what was that catastrophic event?
        It would have very little to do with evolution. Mass die-offs are nothing new in the geologic record. Further, depending on how you want to define humans, the paleontological record clearly shows them arising earlier.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          It would have very little to do with evolution. Mass die-offs are nothing new in the geologic record. Further, depending on how you want to define humans, the paleontological record clearly shows them arising earlier.
          What arose earlier? Are they really our ancestors, genetically? And really rogue this is more than your common mass die off - only one out of ten species worldwide survived. Do we even know what caused that? They say the ice age.

          Also from the link:

          It is textbook biology, for example, that species with large, far-flung populations—think ants, rats, humans—will become more genetically diverse over time.

          But is that true?

          "The answer is no," said Stoeckle, lead author of the study, published in the journal Human Evolution.

          For the planet's 7.6 billion people, 500 million house sparrows, or 100,000 sandpipers, genetic diversity "is about the same," he told AFP.

          And yet—another unexpected finding from the study—species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.

          "If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."

          The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.


          https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-s...ution.html#jCp
          Last edited by seer; 11-25-2018, 03:20 PM.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Interesting...
            Except this layman's article is not quit accurate concerning the genetic science behind what is considered what is simply called the bottle neck Simply it proposes that the genetics of of two individuals in this population are our ancestors genetically. This is somewhat hypothetical and needs more explanation.

            This bottleneck population caused by a catastrophe that left a small population which is believed to be our ancestors, and the hypothetical 'Eve hypothesis.' This is an old topic from previous threads. I will be back with sources that better explain this. They are by the way NOT considered our first human ancestors.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              What arose earlier? Are they really our ancestors, genetically? And really rogue this is more than your common mass die off - only one out of ten species worldwide survived. Do we even know what caused that? They say the ice age.
              Yes, the earlier humans are fully and anatomically our ancestors, and all the catastrophe bottle neck hypothesis is 'only' that our present human population descended from this population.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                1. That all humans and most animals are descended from a single pair.
                You might want to do a bit of reading on the concept of the "Mitochondrial Eve." The concept is not a new one - and there is also a Mitochondiral Adam. I don't think it means what you seem to think it means.

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                2. That the majority of species were wiped out about 100,000 years ago.

                To quote: The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.
                So you are jumping to conclusions here. There study shows that 90% of species originated in the last 100-200K years, and the "majority of species wiped out" is one speculation as to how this could be explained - it's not a "fact." It is also speculated that this might be exactly how evolution works (i.e., at any given time, 90% of the extant species are 100-200K years old. You also seem to be ignoring the other 10%.

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                So how does that square with evolution?
                What do you think needs to be "squared?" I'm not seeing a problem.

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Past 100,000 years how can we even track our ancestors?
                About the same way we are doing it now - imperfectly. Fossils arise under very specific circumstances, so it is entirely possible (likely?) the fossil record will never be "complete."

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                And what was that catastrophic event?
                As far as I can tell - the "catastrophic event" is an item of speculation. Right now, the answer is (as best I can tell) "we don't know."

                I guess I'm a bit surprised. I didn't think you were a bible literalist. But this line of questions suggests that perhaps you are? Do you reject the science of evolution?
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-25-2018, 04:02 PM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  1. That all humans and most animals are descended from a single pair.

                  2. That the majority of species were wiped out about 100,000 years ago.

                  To quote: The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.

                  So how does that square with evolution? Past 100,000 years how can we even track our ancestors? And what was that catastrophic event?
                  Sorry to burst your bubble but the paper doesn't provide evidence of what you claim. Basically the authors looked at genomic data for a large number of species and observed most (90% of the ones they examined) had their own version of “Mitochondrial Eve”, the last common maternal ancestor (LCMA) to all the species members alive today, occur in the range of 100K-200K years ago. Having an LCMA does not mean that individual ancestor was the only female alive at the time, just the one all living species members can trace their maternal ancestry back too. It also does not mean the species started at that time.

                  The paper was published May 2018 in the journal Human Evolution, an obscure Italian vanity magazine almost certainly not properly peer reviewed. The authors made the dubious claims 1) the LCMA indicates the start of the species, a view not accepted by virtually anyone in biology and 2) the authors speculate one explanation (not the only one) is a bottleneck down to a single breeding pair in that time frame. For humans this second "single pair" claim is almost certainly false as the accepted time for Y-chromosome Adam and mtEve are different by tens of thousands of years. I don't know if anyone has done a Y-chromosome timeline for the other non-human species but I'd bet my house the Y-chromosome and mitochondrial timelines don't match.

                  Of course Ken Ham and other YEC organizations are all ga ga over this paper and are offering it as evidence of Noah's Flood, ignoring the timelines and the fact 10% of the data doesn't fall into the 100K window.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post

                    Of course Ken Ham and other YEC organizations are all ga ga over this paper and are offering it as evidence of Noah's Flood, ignoring the timelines and the fact 10% of the data doesn't fall into the 100K window.
                    Interesting, since accepting it's conclusions demolishes the idea that the earth and surrounding universe are less than 10,000 years old.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      You might want to do a bit of reading on the concept of the "Mitochondrial Eve." The concept is not a new one - and there is also a Mitochondiral Adam. I don't think it means what you seem to think it means.
                      I don't know what it means except to say that all living humans descended from one set of parents. You agree?


                      So you are jumping to conclusions here. There study shows that 90% of species originated in the last 100-200K years, and the "majority of species wiped out" is one speculation as to how this could be explained - it's not a "fact." It is also speculated that this might be exactly how evolution works (i.e., at any given time, 90% of the extant species are 100-200K years old. You also seem to be ignoring the other 10%.
                      Well what would explain this besides a mass extinction on the order of something we have not seen since the dinosaurs?

                      And what about this?

                      It is textbook biology, for example, that species with large, far-flung populations—think ants, rats, humans—will become more genetically diverse over time.

                      But is that true?

                      "The answer is no," said Stoeckle, lead author of the study, published in the journal Human Evolution.

                      For the planet's 7.6 billion people, 500 million house sparrows, or 100,000 sandpipers, genetic diversity "is about the same," he told AFP.

                      And yet—another unexpected finding from the study—species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.

                      "If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."

                      The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.


                      https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-s...ution.html#jCp
                      Last edited by seer; 11-25-2018, 06:33 PM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                        Of course Ken Ham and other YEC organizations are all ga ga over this paper and are offering it as evidence of Noah's Flood, ignoring the timelines and the fact 10% of the data doesn't fall into the 100K window.
                        I said nothing about the flood...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I read the researchers papers. None of them talk about humanity descending from a single pair of ancestors, neither does the phys.org paper, which seer seems to have linked to without reading.

                          I think The Daily Mail got the science on this wrong, which is not uncommon for regular news papers reporting on science.
                          Last edited by Leonhard; 11-25-2018, 07:03 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            I read the researchers papers. None of them talk about humanity descending from a single pair of ancestors, neither does the phys.org paper, which seer seems to have linked to without reading.

                            I think The Daily Mail got the science on this wrong, which is not uncommon for regular news papers reporting on science.
                            This is put in quotes:

                            Senior Research Associate Mark Stoeckle and Thaler surveyed the DNA of five million animals, including humans, "and deduced that we sprang from a single pair of adults after a catastrophic event almost wiped out the human race," per the report.

                            https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/sc.../25/id/891865/
                            I don't know if it is accurate or not.

                            But I find this more relevant:

                            It is textbook biology, for example, that species with large, far-flung populations—think ants, rats, humans—will become more genetically diverse over time.

                            But is that true?

                            "The answer is no," said Stoeckle, lead author of the study, published in the journal Human Evolution.

                            For the planet's 7.6 billion people, 500 million house sparrows, or 100,000 sandpipers, genetic diversity "is about the same," he told AFP.

                            And yet—another unexpected finding from the study—species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.

                            "If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies," said Thaler. "They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space."

                            The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.
                            Last edited by seer; 11-25-2018, 07:28 PM.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              This is put in quotes:



                              I don't know if it is accurate or not.

                              But I find this more relevant:
                              I read the newspaper, and it is a bad layman's representation of the facts.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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