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Thread: Mom Dresses 6-Year-Old Son As Girl, Threatens Dad With Losing His Son For Disagreeing

  1. #21
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Is that a phrase that means like "picking up speed"?
    Yes.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
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  2. #22
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It is a sign of the sick world in which we live, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
    And it shows itself in this child abuse.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  3. Amen mossrose, LeaC, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Content blocked - care to summarize or excerpt?
    Therapists convinced the mother that her son would kill himself if she didn't let him wear dresses, and gave the son unscientific propaganda to convince him that humans can change sex. Mother either enjoys the attention she gets from claiming to be a "cured bigot", or is terrified by the constant suicide claims from the media/others. Sad story, but unfortunately common.

  5. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    He-said she-said stories of separated parents squabbling over kids, are unfortunately impossible to analyse seriously because you don't actually know what the true facts on the ground are. One or both parents can be lying to try to get custody or due to an acrimonious separation. I don't see much point in trying to discuss any supposed "facts" of the OP article as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    How can they even consider treating a child with hormones before puberty? The kid doesn't even know what sexual attraction is.
    Your second sentence is unrelated to the first. What gender a person views themselves as being is quite separate to what gender(s) a person finds sexually attractive. The former tends manifest around age 4 or so, and the second around age 11 or so.

    If a child's self-identified gender is clear prior to puberty it is pretty important to give medication to block the puberty process from happening, otherwise that causes physical changes to the body that lock-in the physical sex to a significant extent and make any later attempts to alter it to the other sex much more difficult.

    Even if he does like dressing like a girl, that could easily change once the hormones kick in at puberty.
    Fortunately your wild speculations can be tested by empirical data, so it is possible to study the extent to which such changes tend to occur or not occur. And the empirical answer is no, it does not in fact "easily change once the hormones kick in at puberty".

  7. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post

    If a child's self-identified gender is clear prior to puberty it is pretty important to give medication to block the puberty process from happening, otherwise that causes physical changes to the body that lock-in the physical sex to a significant extent and make any later attempts to alter it to the other sex much more difficult.

    Fortunately your wild speculations can be tested by empirical data, so it is possible to study the extent to which such changes tend to occur or not occur. And the empirical answer is no, it does not in fact "easily change once the hormones kick in at puberty".
    Humans do not change sex. Hormones "feminize" a male body and "masculinize" a female body. The body itself is still the sex it was born as, with the addition of health complications and a potential lifetime on a medication with superficial results. And actually, Starlight, several empirical studies have shown that children are highly likely to cease any gender confusion after going through their natural puberty. So the choices are, risk sterilizing the pre-pubescent child for life, giving them all the possible serious complications of others who take lupron(aka "puberty blockers"), or... risk having them become a perfectly ordinary male or female adult.

    Hmm... tough one.

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #26
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    Yes.
    Interesting - hadn't heard that one, but at least it makes sense.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. #27
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaC View Post
    Humans do not change sex.
    An interesting statement of faith on your part. Is this a purely spiritual truth for you, or do you have some set of physical criteria that could conceivably be met by future technology to qualify as a sex change (e.g. DNA alteration, brain transplant into another body etc)?

    or... risk having them become a perfectly ordinary male or female adult.
    A significant body of the scientific literature on transgenderism is concerned with suicide prevention. The primary risk is having them die prior to ever reaching adulthood.

    Generally the most appropriate and ethical approach seems to be making sure the patients' issues are being addressed to their satisfaction. Some cases of gender identity disorder resolve with time while others do not, so the general medical approach should be keeping any irreversible and invasive medical steps to a minimum unless demanded by the patient, while keeping the patient's mental well-being and satisfaction with the process as the primary focus. Medication that delays the onset of puberty can be useful as it is reversible and gives the patient more time to become certain about their life decisions, and potentially prevents the patient getting upset by their body physically developing in ways that are incongruent with their self-identity.

  11. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    An interesting statement of faith on your part. Is this a purely spiritual truth for you, or do you have some set of physical criteria that could conceivably be met by future technology to qualify as a sex change (e.g. DNA alteration, brain transplant into another body etc)?
    When those technologies are possible, the answer would depend on the degree of effectiveness and nature of the change itself. As it stands, the statement: "Humans do not change sex" is still accurate, as it is lunacy to assume I need to add "Unless aided by scientific advancements that are currently impossible." Tell me Starlight, in the future, since someone may prove unequivocally to you that God exists, why are you wasting time now being an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    A significant body of the scientific literature on transgenderism is concerned with suicide prevention. The primary risk is having them die prior to ever reaching adulthood.
    Indeed, without the threat of suicide, it would be harder to emotionally bully the parents and the public into acceptance of this fiction. If "transgenderism" is truly just a natural variation, as they so often claim, then why do they suffer such severe mental problems, to the extent that they will definitely kill themselves if not sterilized as children? Why is treatment for suicidal ideation not a prerequisite for "transition"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Generally the most appropriate and ethical approach seems to be making sure the patients' issues are being addressed to their satisfaction. Some cases of gender identity disorder resolve with time while others do not, so the general medical approach should be keeping any irreversible and invasive medical steps to a minimum unless demanded by the patient, while keeping the patient's mental well-being and satisfaction with the process as the primary focus. Medication that delays the onset of puberty can be useful as it is reversible and gives the patient more time to become certain about their life decisions, and potentially prevents the patient getting upset by their body physically developing in ways that are incongruent with their self-identity.
    You're talking about children, first off. An 8, 12, even 16 year old does not have the presence of mind and experience to permanently alter their healthy bodies... hence the reason why parents sign off on this, yes? And according to the gender clinics who treat these "trans children", 100% go from puberty blockers to hormones, so it is disingenuous to say that puberty blockers are buying them time. They are setting them up to take hormones for life. Apply some critical reasoning here, Starlight, think about that statistic: 100%. That didn't come from me, it came from Olson-Kennedy, a transgender physician working with gender clinics.

    What else in medicine has a rate of 100%? There is no medication that works on 100% of the population in the same way, without side effects. There is no test with a 100% rate of accuracy. There is no surgery with a 100% chance of success. This is not about delaying anything, it is about advocacy for a particular political ideology, with no regard for the welfare of the child test subjects.

  12. Amen Cow Poke, Cerebrum123, Sparko, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #29
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    An interesting statement of faith on your part. Is this a purely spiritual truth for you, or do you have some set of physical criteria that could conceivably be met by future technology to qualify as a sex change (e.g. DNA alteration, brain transplant into another body etc)?
    Neither of those possibilities would do more than create a potential brain/body or DNA/body mismatch; they wouldn't create an actual change. This is basic biology, Starlight. It's fascinating to me that a scientist would studiously ignore science in favor of subjective feelings, insisting that zhe is right.
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  14. Amen Cow Poke, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  15. #30
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaC View Post
    When those technologies are possible, the answer would depend on the degree of effectiveness and nature of the change itself.
    What I'm trying to understand is the extent your claim is a statement of faith, versus some sort of scientifically testable statement. Are you saying "humans don't change sex because the bible tells me so" or are you saying "I have an understanding in my head of the criteria that would be required to label something a 'sex change' and no current technology meets that criteria, though some future technology might do"? If it's the 2nd, what is that criteria, and why does current tech not meet it in your opinion, and why should I believe that the criteria you happen to have in your head is the one true and correct criteria?

    i.e. are we having some sort of reasonable discussion about empirical realities? In which case we might be able to have a reasonable discussion because it might be possible to point to scientific discoveries or biological facts and discuss things. Or are you just a religious zealot telling me your Views? In which case there's not much point in such a discussion because you would have your Religious Views based on faith, and no amount of pointing to any scientific research is likely to change them.

    And according to the gender clinics who treat these "trans children", 100% go from puberty blockers to hormones, so it is disingenuous to say that puberty blockers are buying them time. They are setting them up to take hormones for life. Apply some critical reasoning here, Starlight, think about that statistic: 100%. That didn't come from me, it came from Olson-Kennedy, a transgender physician working with gender clinics.

    What else in medicine has a rate of 100%? There is no medication that works on 100% of the population in the same way, without side effects. There is no test with a 100% rate of accuracy. There is no surgery with a 100% chance of success. This is not about delaying anything, it is about advocacy for a particular political ideology, with no regard for the welfare of the child test subjects.
    You appear to be totally making this up. Do you think making random things up is likely to be convincing?

    You say it comes from Olson-Kennedy. So I googled her on the subject, and the first thing that came up was a transcript of a talk she gave two months ago in which she says the opposite of what you claim. Here's one part of it:
    Dr Jo Olson-Kennedy on puberty, blockers and hormones
    AUGUST 14, 2018


    "Let me tell you about 2 kids who went on blockers and chose to stop.

    This kid, assigned female [at birth], started saying ‘I a boy’ at 18 months. At 3 years old the kid was in an enormous amount of distress saying 'I’m a boy'. At three kid socially transitioned, started living as a boy. Lived as a boy – also liked dolls and sparkly shoes. Asked ‘if I’m a boy and I like girl’s clothes, am I cross-dressing?’ Said ‘I will live as a boy at elementary school, as a girl at middle school, and by high school I’ll know what’s right for me’.

    The kid decided to live as a girl at 9. Two months later called me saying 'I have breast buds, I need a blocker'. Said didn’t want breasts and wanted time to think. Went on blockers for 2 years.

    Two years later came in and said 'I want blocker removed, I want to go through female puberty'. I said ‘what is happening with your gender?’ They said ‘well, I don’t know yet’. I said ‘well what if it lands on boy?’ The kid said ‘It’s 2017, who says boys can’t have boobs’. Touche small child, I will take your blocker out. So I took the blocker out and the kid continues to live as a girl...

    [Later] I asked them, do you think your parents should have supported you to live as a boy for so long, and they said, ‘I wouldn’t be here now if they hadn’t’. So that is testament to what it means to socially transition, go on blockers, come off blockers."
    So her example of a kid who went on blockers for 2 years and then came off them, and appears now to be reasonably happy going through puberty in accordance with their birth sex, gives the lie to the claim that 100% who go on blockers then go on to have hormones.

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