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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Oooooops!

    A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.


    So, the polling data - whatever it was - was sent to Russia's enemy, instead of Russia?
    So first - it does appear that the initial CNN article misidentified the recipients. However, you seem to be jumping to the conclusion that everyone in the Ukrain is "Russia's enemy." There is a "pro-Russian" faction within the Ukraine - and within the Ukraine government. From what I can find about Lyovochkin, he has been part of that pro-Russian faction for at least part of his life. I cannot find what his stance is now. Akhmetov also has links to pro-Russian entities. The two linked Wikipedia articles are the most succinct source, but these links are affirmed in other places as well.

    That does not mean this makes the link between Manafort and Russia solid. It is possible the entire thing is perfectly innocent. But one has to ask why Manafort felt a need to share this polling data with two Ukranian nationals with links to Russia. It's, at the very least, very curious.

    Hopefully, Meuller will follow it up and we will one day know.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      OBP tends not to use his brain very carefully. Apparently he thinks U.S. polling data is just something Manaforts buddies in Ukraine like to look at for the fun of it.
      Have I mentioned that you're not very good at reading minds? In this case, you're not even trying to be plausible. Fail harder, eh?
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Actually yes he did, he gave it to Kilimnik, a Russian, tied to Russian intel. who then gave it to Ukrainian Oligarchs that worked with Manafort on behalf of Putin's puppet in Ukraine, Yanokovich. And you know it went from there to Putin, to Russia, and was at any rate used by Russian intel. to target the U.S election. What do you think they wanted polling data for? Don't be dummies all your lives.
        I'm not finding confirmation that it went to Lyovochkin and Akhmetov by way of Kilimnik. Do you have a source for this claim?
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          I'm not finding confirmation that it went to Lyovochkin and Akhmetov by way of Kilimnik. Do you have a source for this claim?
          Carp asked JimL for a source!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            He got to be POTUS by being a con man to those who are so naive that they would continue to support him should he shoot someone on 5th ave in broad daylight. Turns out there are a whole bunch of you out there.
            Jim, when you're not the sharpest tool in the coloring box, you really shouldn't try to insult the intelligence of others.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              No, He wasn't, he was conspiring. Hey tell us OBP, any idea why Russia would want polling data from the Trump campaign?
              It wasn't Russia - it was Ukraine.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Carp asked JimL for a source!
                Maybe Carpe wants his head to explode?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Maybe Carpe wants his head to explode?
                  I think this is JimL's source for everything. Liberal Talking Points: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    So first - it does appear that the initial CNN article misidentified the recipients.
                    "Misidentified" ... right.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I'm not finding confirmation that it went to Lyovochkin and Akhmetov by way of Kilimnik. Do you have a source for this claim?
                      Good luck with that.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        "Misidentified" ... right.
                        The term "misidenitify" means "identify (something or someone) incorrectly." So how has that term been used incorrectly in my post?
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          The term "misidenitify" means "identify (something or someone) incorrectly." So how has that term been used incorrectly in my post?
                          You make it sound so innocuous. If Trump ever "misidentified" something, you would condemn it as a lie.

                          But it's fine. It's not like I expect you to be consistent and objective.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            You make it sound so innocuous.
                            I said nothing abut innocuous or not. I have no idea what the Times intentions were and I try not to read minds.

                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            If Trump ever "misidentified" something, you would condemn it as a lie.
                            You have no basis for such speculations. I call it a lie when Trump says it, it is shown to be false, and he continues to say it, repeatedly. I do the same for Obama (i.e., the "you can keep your doctor" claim), and Clinton and anyone else.

                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            But it's fine. It's not like I expect you to be consistent and objective.
                            What you expect is not my concern.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              You have no basis for such assumptions. I call it a lie when Trump says it, it is shown to be false...
                              The problem with them "misidentifying" something (due, in a best case scenario to sloppy reporting) is that even this morning I'm hearing one of the local radio stations still "reporting" the "misidentified" version of the story. It is yet another example of why Trump makes such a big deal about 'fake news'.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                The problem with them "misidentifying" something (due, in a best case scenario to sloppy reporting) is that even this morning I'm hearing one of the local radio stations still "reporting" the "misidentified" version of the story. It is yet another example of why Trump makes such a big deal about 'fake news'.
                                CP - this dynamic happens in all directions. The sea of false stories that came from the right in the last 2 years is no larger or smaller than the sea of false stories that comes from the left. In a news source, I look for a media outlet that, when something wrong is published, acknowledges it, corrects it, and (if appropriate) takes disciplinary action. When the outlet doesn't do that - my confidence in their credibility goes down.

                                I don't expect media outlets to be perfect. Such perfection is not possible. Mistakes will be made. I don't go off on a tear when it happens - I wait to see how it is dealt with.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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