Trump and Russia

[One Bad Pig]

Are we talking about Trump?

I don't think Mr. Trump's words will ever become credible, given that he defends lying as a viable negotiation tactic.

Splendid dodge, sir.

[seer]

And if you look at the things they've lied about, they're insignificant. In Cohen's case, he got a date wrong, and that was out of 70-hours(!) of questioning by Mueller and his goon squad. Interview anybody that extensively and you're bound to force a contradiction or a misrembered detail at some point. The fact that this is apparently the ONLY thing Mueller could get Cohen on after such a lengthy interview doesn't say much for Mueller's collusion case.

And if Cohen is facing time for lying to Congress, what about Comey and Clapper?

[seer]

The question is, do we want, as president, a man who conspires with our historical enemy to secure his election - or do we want someone who is their own person?

But where did that happen? Trying to build a hotel is not conspiring with an enemy to win an election,

[Tassman]

Of course Cohen is such a trustworthy and believable source of accurate information and has absolutely no motivation whatsoever to say whatever he thinks that Mueller wants to hear, right carpe?

Cohen is about as "trustworthy and believable" as Trump, i.e. not at all. But he is not the only source of information at Mueller's disposal and his information can be verified against other accounts. Cohen says Trump had a role in Moscow tower plan after he had become the presidential nominee whilst, simultaneously Russia was meddling in the election to advantage Trump and hurt Hillary. Doesn't sound good to me.

[seer]

OK - so you have no problem with a declared candidate for the presidency of the United States continuing to have high-level business dealings with our historical enemy - and dealings in which they are not actually working with real estate brokers - but with the Kremlin itself?

Somehow, I have the feeling that if it were a Democrat doing the same thing - a different tune would be sung.

Carp, Trump had been trying to get a Hotel in Moscow since 97, and when he became the Republican nominee for President he dropped the project. And pretty much everything goes through the Kremlin in the end. He is a builder, a worldwide builder, that is what he did. And most leftists here did not seem to have a problem with the Clintons connections with Russia.

[Sparko]

Over the course of the last two years, more and more information keeps dropping about the links between Trump, the Trump campaign, and Russia. The latest is this admission from Cohen. I'm really curious. At what point will Trump's base acknowledge that their faithful(less?) leader actually had ties to Russia that impacted on his campaign and election? What exactly will it take?

You realize that was an opinion piece, right?

[Mountain Man]

Carp, Trump had been trying to get a Hotel in Moscow since 97...

You mean he's been colluding with Russia to win the presidency for over 20-years?

This is worse than I thought!

[seer]

You mean he's been colluding with Russia to win the presidency for over 20-years?

This is worse than I thought!

Yep, that's it!

[carpedm9587]

Exactly. Which is why anything you say after that concession is irrelevant.

It is legally irrelevant - it is not politically irrelevant. It is part and parcel of what will probably cost Trump the election in 2020.

[carpedm9587]

Does it matter if there were no crimes being committed? You said yourself that this is just politics.

See my previous post.

[carpedm9587]

Splendid dodge, sir.

What exactly did I dodge?

[carpedm9587]

But where did that happen? Trying to build a hotel is not conspiring with an enemy to win an election,

Seer, the links between Trump, The Trump Campaign, and Russia are numerous, though constantly dismissed by many (most?) on the right. We have (to name a few):

1) The meeting with Jared and Don Junior
2) This hotel which was still under discussion until only months before the election
3) Trump's calls for Russia to hack American institutions
4) Links between various members of the campaign/administration (Mannaforte, Flynn, Sessions, Tillerson, Page, Stone, etc.) and Russian political and economic leadership
5) Kushner's attempts to set up back-channel, encrypted communications from the Russian embassy to Russia

Just to name a few. The steady drip-drip-drip of revelations, Trump's ongoing battle to undermine and/or end the investigation, all create a nasty political situation for him, even if he ultimately did nothing legally wrong. At the end of the day, we have a hostile nation that has been shown to have explicitly sought to undermine our elections - and Trump cozies up to them and takes their side each and every time the issue of the election arises.

[seer]

It is legally irrelevant - it is not politically irrelevant. It is part and parcel of what will probably cost Trump the election in 2020.

Carp were you just as upset when Hillary was Secretary of State while the Clinton Foundation was raking in monies from foreign governments including Russia? If she runs again should that cost her the election?

[carpedm9587]

Carp, Trump had been trying to get a Hotel in Moscow since 97, and when he became the Republican nominee for President he dropped the project.

About a full year AFTER he became a candidate for the highest office in the land. And during that period, the fact that this discussion/plan was underway was kept hidden.

And pretty much everything goes through the Kremlin in the end. He is a builder, a worldwide builder, that is what he did.

From what I have read, this went through the Kremlin from the beginning - not "in the end."

And most leftists here did not seem to have a problem with the Clintons connections with Russia.

This is pure "whataboutism." I have said nothing about Clinton, for or against her ties. This is nothing more than attempt to derail the discussion away from Trump.

[carpedm9587]

You realize that was an opinion piece, right?

Yes - the author is stating an opinion about the news concerning Cohen.