Trump and Russia

[Cow Poke]

Seer, the links between Trump, The Trump Campaign, and Russia are numerous, though constantly dismissed by many (most?) on the right. We have (to name a few):

1) The meeting with Jared and Don Junior
2) This hotel which was still under discussion until only months before the election
3) Trump's calls for Russia to hack American institutions
4) Links between various members of the campaign/administration (Mannaforte, Flynn, Sessions, Tillerson, Page, Stone, etc.) and Russian political and economic leadership
5) Kushner's attempts to set up back-channel, encrypted communications from the Russian embassy to Russia

Just to name a few. The steady drip-drip-drip of revelations, Trump's ongoing battle to undermine and/or end the investigation, all create a nasty political situation for him, even if he ultimately did nothing legally wrong. At the end of the day, we have a hostile nation that has been shown to have explicitly sought to undermine our elections - and Trump cozies up to them and takes their side each and every time the issue of the election arises.

Where did you get this list - and do you SERIOUSLY believe #3? I'd expect that kind of crap from JimL or Tassman.

[seer]

Seer, the links between Trump, The Trump Campaign, and Russia are numerous, though constantly dismissed by many (most?) on the right. We have (to name a few):

1) The meeting with Jared and Don Junior
2) This hotel which was still under discussion until only months before the election
3) Trump's calls for Russia to hack American institutions
4) Links between various members of the campaign/administration (Mannaforte, Flynn, Sessions, Tillerson, Page, Stone, etc.) and Russian political and economic leadership
5) Kushner's attempts to set up back-channel, encrypted communications from the Russian embassy to Russia

Just to name a few. The steady drip-drip-drip of revelations, Trump's ongoing battle to undermine and/or end the investigation, all create a nasty political situation for him, even if he ultimately did nothing legally wrong. At the end of the day, we have a hostile nation that has been shown to have explicitly sought to undermine our elections - and Trump cozies up to them and takes their side each and every time the issue of the election arises.

And the connections between the Clintons and Russia are numerous, and nothing you presented here is illegal as far as we know.

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...llary-clinton/

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...m-company.html

[Sparko]

Whataboutism:
1. A excuse liberals use when confronted with an inconvenient fact that destroys or weakens their argument.
Note: Only works in one direction. Invalid when used against a liberal by a conservative.

[Mountain Man]

Apparently this information has been known for some time. Don, Jr. openly spoke about this project during his Congressional testimony, so folks are a little confused why Cohen apparently felt the need to fudge the dates.

----------

Yahoo News states Cohen’s efforts to bring a Trump property to Russia were known to the two Trump children, with Don Jr. only possessing minor knowledge of the potential deal.

“They were not looking at any other deals after that,” the unnamed source told the outlet. “Michael was looking at that deal. Don and Ivanka knew about it and Don testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee that he was peripherally aware of it.”

“That’s why we’re so perplexed Cohen would lie about briefing them, because no one’s ever disputed that they knew he was looking at it,” the source added.

...

Before departing for the Group of 20 summit in Argentina, President Donald Trump criticized Cohen’s plea agreement and defended mulling plans to build the Moscow tower.

“When I’m running for president that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to do business,” the president told reporters on the White House lawn, adding that Cohen was both a “weak person and not a very smart person.”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-moscow-plans/

[seer]

About a full year AFTER he became a candidate for the highest office in the land. And during that period, the fact that this discussion/plan was underway was kept hidden.

.So what? He did not know if he would become the nominee, but once he did he stopped the project. Why destroy possible business deals if you weren't sure if you would get the nomination. And what was kept hidden? He had been trying to build in Moscow since 97, that was no secret.

From what I have read, this went through the Kremlin from the beginning - not "in the end."

No, he reached out to both real estate people and politicians. Of course the politicians have the real power, it only makes sense to focus on them.

This is pure "whataboutism." I have said nothing about Clinton, for or against her ties. This is nothing more than attempt to derail the discussion away from Trump.

No Carp, it is about the double standard from the left. No one said boo about the Clinton Foundation getting large sums from foreign governments, including Russia. Is she had won you would not even be bringing it up.

[Charles]

Whataboutism:
1. A excuse liberals use when confronted with an inconvenient fact that destroys or weakens their argument.

Wrong. Since whataboutism is pointing to something else than what is being discussed it is not used against anything that weakens the argument. It used against an attempt to derail the discussion with facts about a completely different person or topic. Whataboutism is often supported by the wrong assumption that the person who is confronted with it supports something or someone he/she does not support.

[Charles]

Where did you get this list - and do you SERIOUSLY believe #3? I'd expect that kind of crap from JimL or Tassman.

What do you SERIOUSLY believe about the rest of them?

[Cow Poke]

What do you SERIOUSLY believe about the rest of them?

They are circumstantial. Do you SERIOUSLY believe #3?

[Charles]

They are circumstantial. Do you SERIOUSLY believe #3?

I SERIOUSLY don’t know enough about that particular topic to have an opinion on it.

[rogue06]

I SERIOUSLY don’t know enough about that particular topic to have an opinion on it.

That is indeed the wise course

[Cow Poke]

I SERIOUSLY don’t know enough about that particular topic to have an opinion on it.

But, as usual, that didn't stop you from nannying your way into the discussion and attempting another derail.

[One Bad Pig]

What exactly did I dodge?

The entire thrust of my statement, which you ignored in favor of bashing Trump. Carry on.

[Tassman]

The entire thrust of my statement, which you ignored in favor of bashing Trump.

Trump doesn't need any help in this regard, he self-destructs. According to Cohen, Trump during the campaign in 2016, was secretly trying to arrange a major business deal in Moscow through direct contact with the Kremlin. He was trying to do this deal while the Kremlin, according to US Intelligence, was simultaneously orchestrating a military intelligence attack by the election to hurt Hillary and to help Trump win. The deal was kept secret at the time. He and his business associates lied about it publicly. They then launched an elaborate cover-up campaign to keep it secret, including lying to Congress about it. What all this shows is a lot more communication between Trump's people and the Russians than was previously known, something Trump has long denied and a serious conflict of interest.

[Charles]

But, as usual, that didn't stop you from nannying your way into the discussion and attempting another derail.

No derail. I only wonder why you only adressed the one point that you disagreed with and ignored the others.

[JimL]

I think Trumps base here have pretty much answered carpe's query, as if we didn't know the answer already. They'll still be in denial after he's impeached and behind bars or in exile in Russia or Saudi Arabia. It's the deep state remember!