President George H.W. Bush dead at 94

[JimL]

He was being gracious to the despot who rigged the phony primaries and paid to have a document fabricated that was used as the pretext for the whole special prosecutor investigation.

[Cow Poke]

I just watched the 21 plane fly over. This whole week just reminds how well the United States does solemn ceremonies like this.

Real class, all the way around.

[Tassman]

If Trump doesn't believe in the Apostle's Creed, why should he say it? I don't know if he believes it or not, but if he doesn't, then he is right not to hypocritically repeat the words.

I very much doubt that Trump even knows what it is.

[Starlight]

I very much doubt that Trump even knows what it is.

I'm sure, after a few moments' thought, Trump could tell you that the Apostles' Creed was the very best creed, that it was the biggest and most beautiful creed, that there's never been another creed like it, and that it was written by all the best people.

And after a few more moments thought he could tell you that the Apostles Creed was, well, the creed of the apostles, because, y'know, it's in the name "Apostles' Creed". And a lot of people don't realize that. But he is smart, very smart, and knows some very smart people, he can tell you, very smart. And those people know a lot about all the religion stuff. Great people, good people.

[Starlight]

Which beggars the question: Why did Obama and the Clintons repeat the Creed if they also don't believe in it?

Why would you think they don't? Unlike Trump, both Obama and Hillary were Christians who attended church throughout much of their lives, and raised their children as Christians (also having them baptized in Obama's case).

I think Hillary did herself a disservice in the primaries by not emphasizing her own religiosity over and against Trump's lack of it. One commentator suggested she should have challenged Trump to a bible memory verse competition to see who knew the bible better, as Hillary's biblical knowledge is apparently excellent, and doing so would perhaps have put questions into a lot of evangelical voters' minds as to whether they should really be voting for a debauched atheist like Trump or a Christian like Hillary.


I would personally tend to assume that Trump had no clue what the Apostles' Creed was, so the reason he didn't read it like everyone else wasn't because he disagreed with the theology of it or didn't believe it, it was simply because he has reading difficulties. The type on the handouts they were given probably wasn't big enough for him, and he struggles generally to read more than a sentence and doesn't enjoy the process, so he probably thought "hey, why bother doing something I don't enjoy and struggle with, when I can simply not do so?", so he just didn't bother reading along. We can speculate he may have been listening to what everyone else was saying and agreeing/disagreeing with it in his head.

[lilpixieofterror]

Why would you think they don't? Unlike Trump, both Obama and Hillary were Christians who attended church throughout much of their lives, and raised their children as Christians (also having them baptized in Obama's case).

I think Hillary did herself a disservice in the primaries by not emphasizing her own religiosity over and against Trump's lack of it. One commentator suggested she should have challenged Trump to a bible memory verse competition to see who knew the bible better, as Hillary's biblical knowledge is apparently excellent, and doing so would perhaps have put questions into a lot of evangelical voters' minds as to whether they should really be voting for a debauched atheist like Trump or a Christian like Hillary.


I would personally tend to assume that Trump had no clue what the Apostles' Creed was, so the reason he didn't read it like everyone else wasn't because he disagreed with the theology of it or didn't believe it, it was simply because he has reading difficulties. The type on the handouts they were given probably wasn't big enough for him, and he struggles generally to read more than a sentence and doesn't enjoy the process, so he probably thought "hey, why bother doing something I don't enjoy and struggle with, when I can simply not do so?", so he just didn't bother reading along. We can speculate he may have been listening to what everyone else was saying and agreeing/disagreeing with it in his head.

I can go for a quiz:

“Mrs Clinton, what does the Bible say about bearing false witness when you destroyed the life and reputation of the women that accused your husband of sexually assaulting them?”

[Starlight]

I can go for a quiz:

“Mrs Clinton, what does the Bible say about bearing false witness when you destroyed the life and reputation of the women that accused your husband of sexually assaulting them?”

Well bearing false witness appears to be Trump's expertise...

Is your theology that a person who sins even once isn't a Christian? Otherwise I am not sure how you get from "Clinton sinned" to "Clinton isn't a Christian"...

FWIW, my 91 year old evangelical Christian grandmother thinks very highly of Hillary's christian virtues, and whenever Hillary's name comes up in conversation she praises Hillary for not divorcing her husband during the scandals about his affairs. Do you happen to think divorcing Bill would have been a greater or lesser sin for Hillary to commit than standing by him and attacking his accusers was?

[rogue06]

Well bearing false witness appears to be Trump's expertise...

Is your theology that a person who sins even once isn't a Christian? Otherwise I am not sure how you get from "Clinton sinned" to "Clinton isn't a Christian"...

FWIW, my 91 year old evangelical Christian grandmother thinks very highly of Hillary's christian virtues, and whenever Hillary's name comes up in conversation she praises Hillary for not divorcing her husband during the scandals about his affairs. Do you happen to think divorcing Bill would have been a greater or lesser sin for Hillary to commit than standing by him and attacking his accusers was?

In a marriage of political convenience such a thing as infidelity is hardly a deal breaker.

[Starlight]

In a marriage of political convenience such a thing as infidelity is hardly a deal breaker.

I don't think such wild and unevidenced speculation is appropriate. The bible has a lot to say about rumormongering. The state of their marriage, whatever it might be, is between them.

[Cow Poke]

I think Hillary did herself a disservice in the primaries by not emphasizing her own religiosity over and against Trump's lack of it. ...

The problem with that is that the Democrat party is moving farther and farther away from "God and Country" - and she's not wanting to identify herself with that anymore.

[lilpixieofterror]

Well bearing false witness appears to be Trump's expertise...

Is your theology that a person who sins even once isn't a Christian? Otherwise I am not sure how you get from "Clinton sinned" to "Clinton isn't a Christian"...

Never said that at all, but perhaps you can tell me where the Bible says memorizing creeds and verses makes someone a Christian?

FWIW, my 91 year old evangelical Christian grandmother thinks very highly of Hillary's christian virtues, and whenever Hillary's name comes up in conversation she praises Hillary for not divorcing her husband during the scandals about his affairs. Do you happen to think divorcing Bill would have been a greater or lesser sin for Hillary to commit than standing by him and attacking his accusers was?

I’m just using your standards and you don’t seem to like it one bit. Hillary Clinton didn’t divorce not because some view of loyalty but the power it comes from being a Clinton. See I didn’t pick Trump because he was viritulous or anything, but because he was a slightly better choice than his competition. Keep those fingers jammed in your ears because Clinton is no better than Trump just because she memorized a few verses and creeds. Memorization doesn’t make one a Christian.

[lilpixieofterror]

In a marriage of political convenience such a thing as infidelity is hardly a deal breaker.

And the question is...

Has Bill stopped committing adulatory?

[Mountain Man]

Well bearing false witness appears to be Trump's expertise...

Is your theology that a person who sins even once isn't a Christian? Otherwise I am not sure how you get from "Clinton sinned" to "Clinton isn't a Christian"...

FWIW, my 91 year old evangelical Christian grandmother thinks very highly of Hillary's christian virtues, and whenever Hillary's name comes up in conversation she praises Hillary for not divorcing her husband during the scandals about his affairs. Do you happen to think divorcing Bill would have been a greater or lesser sin for Hillary to commit than standing by him and attacking his accusers was?

Staying married to a sexual predator like Bill might be virtuous (although the Bible explicitly allows divorce as a remedy for martial infidelity); destroying the lives of her husband's victims in the interest of protecting her own political ambitions, however, is not. Besides, if she had divorced Bill then she would have been blackballed by the Democrat party, and her political career would have been finished, so I'm not even convinced that her staying married was an act of virtue.

[Starlight]

Hillary Clinton didn’t divorce not because some view of loyalty but the power it comes from being a Clinton.

Wow, your powers of telepathy are incredible. Can you know the thoughts of any individual of your choosing, or is your mind-reading limited to Hillary Clinton?

And why should I believe your view, as opposed to my grandmother's view that Hillary showed great courage and loyalty and love by supporting her husband through his scandals that rather than rejecting him?

[Cow Poke]

Wow, your powers of telepathy are incredible. Can you know the thoughts of any individual of your choosing, or is your mind-reading limited to Hillary Clinton?

And why should I believe your view, as opposed to my grandmother's view that Hillary showed great courage and loyalty and love by supporting her husband through his scandals that rather than rejecting him?

Your dear sweet grandmother is lovingly naive and wonderfully charitable with regards to Hillary's political "politics of destruction"?