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President George H.W. Bush dead at 94

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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    He's the gift that keeps on giving for liberal and progressive causes.
    Yeah, he's the Nancy Pelosi of the Republican party.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      First off, I detest funerals. They generally creep me out and I withdraw. Maybe he hates them too? Second, just because someone doesn't recite the Apostle's Creed doesn't make them a bad person. He may not have even known the words... We don't know.
      He was disconnected from the entire service - no songs either. And all of the words for all parts of the service (including the creed) were in the printed program. I actually made no statements about what this makes Trump (i.e., "bad person"). I was curious about the reaction from people who are part of the evangelical movement.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I don't think Trump wanted to be there.
        That much was clear...
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Please castigate yourself for making the kind of ignorant broadsweeping statements that you pretend to hate.
          I was going to say that a partial castigation is in order and that I should have said, "the hero of the vast majority of the evangelical movement," but then I went and checked my facts, and even THAT is not true (or at least I cannot substantiate it). I failed to notice that all of the polling on this seems to focus on white evangelicals, where Trump's approval is approximately 70% and has pretty much not budged since the Republican convention. I am not finding a number for evangelicals overall.

          As for the "pretend to hate" comment, I do hate such sweeping generalizations. But I have also been fairly clear that it's a hard habit to break, and I am only now in the process of breaking it. So I am guilty of slipping up and you were right to call me on it.

          And now YOU do some self-castigating for unsolicited, inappropriate, and inaccurate mind reading.

          Oh...wait...you've never said you don't like such things. Never mind...carry on...
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
            Trump, being the narcissist that he is, would probably only be happy attending his own funeral.
            I think I would enjoy attending his funeral as well!
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              You mean like this?
              Yes - that is another place where I slipped. The statement should have read: "It is also entirely possible that the consistent denial that racism exists by so many people that lean right shields them, to some degree, from this effect."

              Again - my apologies for a too-broad statement.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                If Trump doesn't believe in the Apostle's Creed, why should he say it? I don't know if he believes it or not, but if he doesn't, then he is right not to hypocritically repeat the words.

                Which beggars the question: Why did Obama and the Clintons repeat the Creed if they also don't believe in it? I find it worse for someone who doesn't believe to say the words than for someone who doesn't believe to not say the words.

                I also think it's a really stupid thing for the media and anybody else to pick up on. Haters going to hate, I suppose, and have to nitpick the smallest things.

                Like the Pharisees who strained out gnats and swallowed camels.
                Most of the Creed is "basic Christian theology." I've underlined the two phrases I suspect most non-catholics would object to below.

                I believe in God, the Father almighty,
                creator of heaven and earth.
                I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
                who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
                born of the Virgin Mary,
                suffered under Pontius Pilate,
                was crucified, died, and was buried;
                he descended to the dead.
                On the third day he rose again;
                he ascended into heaven,
                he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
                and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
                I believe in the Holy Spirit,
                the holy catholic Church,
                the communion of saints,

                the forgiveness of sins,
                the resurrection of the body,
                and the life everlasting. Amen.


                So I don't see hypocrisy unless you are actually saying things you don't believe. And I have been leaving "under god" out of my recitation of the "Pledge of Allegiance" for decades now. It's pretty simple - you just go silent when you reach something you don't actually believe in.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  He's the gift that keeps on giving for liberal and progressive causes. I hope he manages to stay in office by his fingernails right up to the 2020 election. The blue wave in 2018 will be as nothing compared to 2020 if it's Bernie vs Trump.
                  The "Blue Wave" was pretty much what usually happens in a mid-term election except that the party in control of the White House actually gained seats in the Senate.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Sir Edmund Hillary was born: July 20, 1919, Auckland, New Zealand. Hillary Clinton, according to Snopes, said her mother Dorothy Rodham “had read an article about the intrepid Edmund Hillary, who had taken to mountain climbing, when she was pregnant in 1947 and liked the name.” Although it is true that Edmund Hillary did not perform the feat that made him famous throughout the English-speaking world until 1953, i.e. well after she was born. So there is legitimate link, not that this will be acknowledged by the "Hillary-can-do-no right" brigade.
                    Snopes did some fact checking on this, and it does appear that the claim is a false one, and that Ms. Clinton invented the story.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      That much was clear...
                      We agree on something? You obviously must be wrong!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I was going to say that a partial castigation is in order and that I should have said, "the hero of the vast majority of the evangelical movement," but then I went and checked my facts, and even THAT is not true (or at least I cannot substantiate it). I failed to notice that all of the polling on this seems to focus on white evangelicals, where Trump's approval is approximately 70% and has pretty much not budged since the Republican convention. I am not finding a number for evangelicals overall.

                        As for the "pretend to hate" comment, I do hate such sweeping generalizations. But I have also been fairly clear that it's a hard habit to break, and I am only now in the process of breaking it. So I am guilty of slipping up and you were right to call me on it.

                        And now YOU do some self-castigating for unsolicited, inappropriate, and inaccurate mind reading.

                        Oh...wait...you've never said you don't like such things. Never mind...carry on...
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Most of the Creed is "basic Christian theology." I've underlined the two phrases I suspect most non-catholics would object to below.

                          I believe in God, the Father almighty,
                          creator of heaven and earth.
                          I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
                          who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
                          born of the Virgin Mary,
                          suffered under Pontius Pilate,
                          was crucified, died, and was buried;
                          he descended to the dead.
                          On the third day he rose again;
                          he ascended into heaven,
                          he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
                          and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
                          I believe in the Holy Spirit,
                          the holy catholic Church,
                          the communion of saints,

                          the forgiveness of sins,
                          the resurrection of the body,
                          and the life everlasting. Amen.


                          So I don't see hypocrisy unless you are actually saying things you don't believe. And I have been leaving "under god" out of my recitation of the "Pledge of Allegiance" for decades now. It's pretty simple - you just go silent when you reach something you don't actually believe in.
                          The "holy catholic church" (small c), to me, just means 'all of the saints through all of the ages', and has nothing to do with Catholic with a capital C.
                          The "communion of the saints" is simply the fellowship and communion of the redeemed.

                          I don't object to any of that, but still don't feel comfortable "reciting the creed", cause it's just not part of who I am. (The creed itself, not the truths contained therein)
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Most of the Creed is "basic Christian theology." I've underlined the two phrases I suspect most non-catholics would object to below.
                            The "he descended to the dead" part could be reasonably controversial too today, if it were understood as implying any of the ancient views about what Jesus actually did while he was dead.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              The "he descended to the dead" part could be reasonably controversial too today, if it were understood as implying any of the ancient views about what Jesus actually did while he was dead.
                              Funny story....

                              A "supply preacher" (fills in for various pastors on vacation or whatever) arrived at a church just in time for the service, and knew he would be leading the Apostle's Creed, sometimes including the "descended into Hell" and sometimes not.

                              He whispered to the Deacon just before stepping into the pulpit, "Do we descend into Hell or not", to which the Deacon replied "more times than we like to admit".
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Most of the Creed is "basic Christian theology." I've underlined the two phrases I suspect most non-catholics would object to below.

                                I believe in God, the Father almighty,
                                creator of heaven and earth.
                                I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
                                who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
                                born of the Virgin Mary,
                                suffered under Pontius Pilate,
                                was crucified, died, and was buried;
                                he descended to the dead.
                                On the third day he rose again;
                                he ascended into heaven,
                                he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
                                and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
                                I believe in the Holy Spirit,
                                the holy catholic Church,
                                the communion of saints,

                                the forgiveness of sins,
                                the resurrection of the body,
                                and the life everlasting. Amen.


                                So I don't see hypocrisy unless you are actually saying things you don't believe. And I have been leaving "under god" out of my recitation of the "Pledge of Allegiance" for decades now. It's pretty simple - you just go silent when you reach something you don't actually believe in.
                                Most if not all non-Catholics have no objection to the underlined portions because they interpret them differently than Catholics do. For example, consider the phrase "holy catholic church." While the word catholic is most commonly used in English to refer to the Catholic Church, the word "catholic" also means "universal" or "all-encompassing." A Protestant would probably claim that the term "holy catholic church" here is a reference to the Christian community as a whole. In contrast, the position of the Eastern Orthodox Church is that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the "holy catholic church" is the Eastern Orthodox Church--indeed, while it's common (at least here in the west) to refer to it as the Eastern Orthodox Church, its official name is actually the Orthodox Catholic Church.

                                Comment

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