North Carolina Voting - and Consistency

[Roy]

Thank you Mr. Nitpicker, but it is the same thing we have brought up in the Florida Elections just recently and in the Presidential Election of 2016, in which we were told over and over that there is no such thing as "Voter/Election Fraud" - it is just something Republicans came up with because they don't like the results, or want to stop Democrats from voting.

yourself.

Saying that there was no voter/election fraud in Florida doesn't mean that there was no voter/election fraud in North Carolina.

Saying that there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there is no election fraud.

I doubt anyone has ever told you that there is no election fraud generally.

[One Bad Pig]

yourself.

Saying that there was no voter/election fraud in Florida doesn't mean that there was no voter/election fraud in North Carolina.

Saying that there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there is no election fraud.

I doubt anyone has ever told you that there is no election fraud generally.

We've been assured repeatedly that IF there is election fraud in the US, it's insignificant.

[oxmixmudd]

We've been assured repeatedly that IF there is election fraud in the US, it's insignificant.

Lets be a bit clearer. Trump has alledged several times and without evidence that there has been massive voter fraud. The response to Trump's baseless and generic accusations has been there is no evidence of the sort of massive fraud trump alledged.

These in NC, OTOH, are evidence BASED accusations of voter fraud. They are specific and based on multiple sources and look to be quite real.

Jim

[Sparko]

yourself.

Saying that there was no voter/election fraud in Florida doesn't mean that there was no voter/election fraud in North Carolina.

Saying that there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there is no election fraud.

I doubt anyone has ever told you that there is no election fraud generally.

As OBP pointed out, every time someone points out election or voter fraud by the democrats, we are told that it is so insignificant that it can't affect the elections, or that it didn't happen at all and is either made up whole cloth or exaggerated by the Republicans. But as usual, when the story is that Republicans are cheating in elections, even when it is apparently ONE person in one precinct, it is "OMG! Voter FRAUD! Why haven't any Republicans pointed this out??"

My stance is that voter fraud and election fraud does happen and it happens on both sides of the fence and we need to do something about it. We need to secure our elections.

[Sparko]

Lets be a bit clearer. Trump has alledged several times and without evidence that there has been massive voter fraud. The response to Trump's baseless and generic accusations has been there is no evidence of the sort of massive fraud trump alledged.

These in NC, OTOH, are evidence BASED accusations of voter fraud. They are specific and based on multiple sources and look to be quite real.

Jim

Jim, just go read the thread here about the Florida shenanigans and the other threads on voter fraud on tweb. This isn't about Trump's claims.

[One Bad Pig]

Lets be a bit clearer. Trump has alledged several times and without evidence that there has been massive voter fraud. The response to Trump's baseless and generic accusations has been there is no evidence of the sort of massive fraud trump alledged.

These in NC, OTOH, are evidence BASED accusations of voter fraud. They are specific and based on multiple sources and look to be quite real.

Jim

Let's be even more clearer. I am by no means limiting this to Trump's allegations, but intend to include every single Democrat response to proposed Voter ID laws. You may want to get a physical - you appear to have come down with a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Let's also not pretend that I'm trying to ignore these accusations. ANY instance of voter/election fraud should be prosecuted. Including this one.

[Roy]

We've been assured repeatedly that IF there is election fraud in the US, it's insignificant.

No, you've been assured that if there is voter fraud in the US it's insignificant. Looking at the resource seer posted, this seems to be the case - there are more cases of fraud by election officials and campaign staff than by individual voters, and the former involve larger numbers of votes.

It's in crooked politicians' interest to conflate voter fraud and election fraud, since they can then introduce measures supposedly to combat the nearly non-existent voter fraud, under the guise of combatting election fraud, and thus not only continue their own election fraud activities but even enhance them through disenfranchisement.

Let's be even more clearer. I am by no means limiting this to Trump's allegations, but intend to include every single Democrat response to proposed Voter ID laws.

Voter ID laws do not stop ballot-box stuffing.

[Sparko]

No, you've been assured that if there is voter fraud in the US it's insignificant. Looking at the resource seer posted, this seems to be the case - there are more cases of fraud by election officials and campaign staff than by individual voters, and the former involve larger numbers of votes.

It's in crooked politicians' interest to conflate voter fraud and election fraud, since they can then introduce measures supposedly to combat the nearly non-existent voter fraud, under the guise of combatting election fraud, and thus not only continue their own election fraud activities but even enhance them through disenfranchisement.

You can't nitpick your way out of this Roy.

[oxmixmudd]

Let's be even more clearer. I am by no means limiting this to Trump's allegations, but intend to include every single Democrat response to proposed Voter ID laws. You may want to get a physical - you appear to have come down with a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Let's also not pretend that I'm trying to ignore these accusations. ANY instance of voter/election fraud should be prosecuted. Including this one.

Good grief. The only one here with a 'derangement syndrome' is you. You can't read the words posted by anyone not 100% behind trump.

1) I am not against voter id laws. I am for them. I gave a proposal to help make specially issued voter ids more secure a few posts back. The only thing I'm against are attempts to control election outcomes by changing voter id laws within a few weeks or months of an actual election. Those sorts of efforts almost always disproportionately affect low income or disadvantaged (higher percentage democratic) voters. So the complaints tend to come from democrats.

2) I am not trying to claim you are ignoring accusations. I am saying that your cynicism directed at democrats claiming there is no voter fraud is too general and mischaracterizes the actual situation.

a) Trump was claiming voter fraud w/o evidence has prompted many of the recent statements about a lack of evidence for significant voter fraud.
b) Voter id laws are often introduced late in the election cycle and almost always are more likely to reduce democratic voter turnout. This is why complaints about them tend to come from Democratic sources.
(ETA) c) this is not voter fraud, it is election fraud.

To solve the problem, if REPUBLICANS lead the charge in making voter Id laws, then REPUBLICANS ALSO need to head the charge in making sure that if we are going to require an id to vote we ensure every eligible citizen gets that id. And they also need to make the changes BETWEEN election cycles.



Jim

[JimL]

You know how discussions get started around here? When someone creates a thread, so good job!

As for the linked story, there's really not enough information to make a determination. At this point it looks like accusations with no real proof. Maybe evidence will emerge during an investigation, or maybe it won't. Who can say.

Gee, who'd a guessed it. Leave it to MM. "no real proof"

[JimL]

yeah I never got the whole Election Tuesday thing and having to work voting in around work. They should move it to a weekend or make it a holiday where nobody has to work.

But then republicans would get crushed even worse than by the 8 million votes they lost by in the midterms.

[oxmixmudd]

You can't nitpick your way out of this Roy.

He's not nitpicking Sparko. It is a real distinction with real consequences. Individual voters typically don't pretend to be someone else or try to vote multiple times. But that may not be true of people in the campaigns themselves. THIS case is a specific person with a felony on his record who was hired by the Harris campaign and who engaged in illegal activities to destroy contrary and/or add favorable votes relative to that candidates success. This is not voter fraud. It is election fraud.


Jim

[One Bad Pig]

Good grief. The only one here with a 'derangement syndrome' is you. You can't read the words posted by anyone not 100% behind trump.

Wow. Thanks for proving my point, Jim.

[Mountain Man]

Gee, who'd a guessed it. Leave it to MM. "no real proof"

Yes, Jimmy. You see, unlike a low-information liberal like you, some of us like to wait until there are sufficient facts at our disposal before rendering a judgment. This seems like common sense to me, but as the saying goes, if common sense was really common then it wouldn't be such a valued commodity.

[JimL]

Like I said, I think any voter fraud should be investigated and prosecuted. This is why I support photo IDs for voting. I think Absentee Ballots are misused a lot. Many people do early voting and absentee ballots because they are too lazy to go to the polls. But as this shows, it is ripe for abuse by the unscrupulous. A lot of the accusations of fraud in Florida was linked to absentee ballots too.

Since voting is essential to our very government, we should try to ensure it isn't being abused by anyone.

Absolutely, we really need to stop the republican party from abusing the system. You've got voter fraud, suppression of the vote by various nefarious means, not to mention collusion with foriegn foes. Seems republicans would rather live in a Russian like democracy than lose in a real one.