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Thread: The evidence of a Tigris Euphrates Noah flood about 2900 BCE

  1. #21
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The world is much older than 12 000 years, and that there was no global flood within the past 200 000 years are not matters of mere hypothesis. No satisfactory squaring of the record of Noah with any events of the past 200 000 years is possible. Either the story is a fable, or it is far more ancient than is generally believed.
    And it's always possible that we are misinterpreting the evidence.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #22
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And it's always possible that we are misinterpreting the evidence.
    An adequate falsifiable hypothesis is necessary to support an alternative explanation that the present scientific view misinterprets the evidence. At present no such viable hypothesis has been presented.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #23
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    It depends on one's assumptions.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #24
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    The assumptions are that floods leave traces of their occurrence.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  5. #25
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It depends on one's assumptions.
    That is given like the sky is Carolina Blue at noon on a clear day on the 4th of July, but simply assumptions do not provide the objective verifiable evidence needed for a falsifiable hypothesis that the current science misinterprets the evidence.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  6. #26
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The assumptions are that floods leave traces of their occurrence.
    Assuming we would recognize the traces of a one-time world wide catastrophe that happened an indeterminate time in the past through means that we don't entirely understand and has never been repeated.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. #27
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Assuming we would recognize the traces of a one-time world wide catastrophe that happened an indeterminate time in the past through means that we don't entirely understand and has never been repeated.
    The more reasonable hypothesis would be that any world wide flood that left only eight people living would be incompatible with verifiable evidence of cities which show no disruption to their existence at the time that the world wide flood occurred. The existence of that evidence leads to expanding the time frame specified by the Bible to roughly eleven thousand years instead of the six thousand which can be ascertained from the Biblical record. 11 000 years declares the Biblical time frame wrong anyway.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  8. #28
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Assuming we would recognize the traces of a one-time world wide catastrophe that happened an indeterminate time in the past through means that we don't entirely understand and has never been repeated.
    If a global flood of that nature recently took place we couldn't help but trip over the evidence.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  9. Amen Roy, Charles amen'd this post.
  10. #29
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    If a global flood of that nature recently took place we couldn't help but trip over the evidence.
    The problem is, if the flood wasn't global then the story makes no sense. Why build a boat when Noah and his family could have simply moved to another part of the Earth that God wasn't planning to destroy? Why bring two of every land animal aboard when there would have been plenty of survivors in the unflooded regions? Is it plausible that Noah and his family could have spent a year on the water without ever seeing evidence of distant dry land?

    I have trouble reconciling the details of the story with the premise that it wasn't a global flood.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #30
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The problem is, if the flood wasn't global then the story makes no sense. Why build a boat when Noah and his family could have simply moved to another part of the Earth that God wasn't planning to destroy?
    If the flood wasn't global and the only humans (homo sap.sap.) in the world lived on a sizable island that got drowned, a boat would make perfect sense. The development of a radically different species on an isolated island would be a fairly normal event. Volcano, bolide strike, tsunami, earthquake could sink even a large island. Sizable areas of land have been known to wind up at the bottom of the sea in the past. Notably Doggerland - which 6 000 years ago formed the peninsula connecting Europe with the British Isles.
    Why bring two of every land animal aboard when there would have been plenty of survivors in the unflooded regions?
    Even assuming barely weaned animals when they were taken aboard the ark - it isn't big enough to accommodate every species in the world - nor even every genus. Again, the animals on an island could be accommodated. While some plant and animal life would survive a calamity, it would make sense to take known animals along for the ride rather than trying to go hunting in an unknown environment.
    Is it plausible that Noah and his family could have spent a year on the water without ever seeing evidence of distant dry land?
    Entirely - the ark was designed so as to not sink. It wasn't designed to manoeuvre.

    I have trouble reconciling the details of the story with the premise that it wasn't a global flood.
    In all probability the story is a fable. If it is a record of real events, they must have occurred more than 200 000 years ago. The Biblical story would then be a written record of a tale told down through the generations, with a patch to recent ancestors abutting a tale of ancient ancestors with nothing to show where the missing generations belonged. Epic tales of long-ago events tend to be preserved as they were after a few generations - they usually don't continue to get updated.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  12. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.

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