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The Silence of Heaven

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  • #31
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

    Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So God does lead and guide us, and we can hear from him?

    You seem to be indecisive.

    The scriptures give us general moral guidelines and parameters on how to act in various situations. But I know that I have felt God prompting me specifically in some circumstances, wanting me to do something. I have never "heard" an audible voice, but more of a feeling, a nagging at my conscience.
    I can be open to that if need be, but I would just like to see something Scriptural for it, and of course, I don't know of any hard and fast rule to know it's God and not your own desires or something like that. I think such things are possible, but they are not normative, and I get concerned about people giving divine authority to their feelings.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
      I can be open to that if need be, but I would just like to see something Scriptural for it, and of course, I don't know of any hard and fast rule to know it's God and not your own desires or something like that. I think such things are possible, but they are not normative, and I get concerned about people giving divine authority to their feelings.
      Well how about how God leads his people and tells them what to do all throughout the bible? That's a pretty powerful example isn't it? And the fact that Jesus said he would be sending the Holy Spirit to guide us and lead us to the truth?

      And yes, there is always a danger of confusing your own feeling with the Holy Spirit. That is why if we are unsure, we should talk with others. "test the spirits"

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

        Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Well how about how God leads his people and tells them what to do all throughout the bible? That's a pretty powerful example isn't it? And the fact that Jesus said he would be sending the Holy Spirit to guide us and lead us to the truth?

        And yes, there is always a danger of confusing your own feeling with the Holy Spirit. That is why if we are unsure, we should talk with others. "test the spirits"
        The people in the Bible are recorded for being the exception and not the rule. Moses heard from God. Most of the Israelites in the wilderness did not.

        The promise of Jesus was to the immediate disciples hearing Him. I don't think we can necessarily extend it to us.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
          The people in the Bible are recorded for being the exception and not the rule. Moses heard from God. Most of the Israelites in the wilderness did not.

          The promise of Jesus was to the immediate disciples hearing Him. I don't think we can necessarily extend it to us.
          I have to disagree. Under your theory we are left alone, abandoned with just some book to guide us. It almost sounds like you think the bible is magical and covers every situation. There is no need for the Holy Spirit or God under your theory. They said, "hey we left you a book. See you after the resurrection. k'bye."

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          • #35
            Why do you keep quoting my post in your replies to Sparko?
            Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
            The people in the Bible are recorded for being the exception and not the rule. Moses heard from God. Most of the Israelites in the wilderness did not.

            The promise of Jesus was to the immediate disciples hearing Him. I don't think we can necessarily extend it to us.
            Most of the people of Israel in the Old Testament did not have the Holy Spirit. Since Pentecost, everyone in the church has the Holy Spirit.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Why do you keep quoting my post in your replies to Sparko?

              Most of the people of Israel in the Old Testament did not have the Holy Spirit. Since Pentecost, everyone in the church has the Holy Spirit.
              He used the multi-quote reply once and it leaves the extra posts checked even after posting so subsequent posts still keep quoting yours. He needs to go to that post and uncheck it.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Why do you keep quoting my post in your replies to Sparko?

                Most of the people of Israel in the Old Testament did not have the Holy Spirit. Since Pentecost, everyone in the church has the Holy Spirit.
                I saw what Sparko said. Not sure how to fix that.

                As for we all have the Holy SPirit, yes. We do.

                And yet we still have Paul writing letters to people who have the SPirit and we still have teachers and everything else.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  I have to disagree. Under your theory we are left alone, abandoned with just some book to guide us. It almost sounds like you think the bible is magical and covers every situation. There is no need for the Holy Spirit or God under your theory. They said, "hey we left you a book. See you after the resurrection. k'bye."
                  We don't just have some book. We have Scripture. Does it cover every conceivable situation? No. Not at all. Does it give us guidance and wisdom? Yes. Do we also have the Holy Spirit in us? Yes. Does that mean we have individualistic leading? No. I don't see that promised. I see the Holy SPirit helping us more to be, well, holy.

                  Consider marriage as an example. People think we have to ask God who it is we should marry as if there's one specific person.

                  What is important is that you marry a good person who is Biblically suited to you, but even more so, what kind of spouse you will be.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                    We don't just have some book. We have Scripture. Does it cover every conceivable situation? No. Not at all. Does it give us guidance and wisdom? Yes. Do we also have the Holy Spirit in us? Yes. Does that mean we have individualistic leading? No. I don't see that promised. I see the Holy SPirit helping us more to be, well, holy.
                    Where do you get the idea we're advocating "individualistic leading"?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                      As for we all have the Holy SPirit, yes. We do.

                      And yet we still have Paul writing letters to people who have the SPirit and we still have teachers and everything else.
                      Sure - because we're usually not very good at listening to the Spirit. It is truly a blessing to have the Scriptures, but they didn't fall out of the sky fully formed; it took people listening to the Holy Spirit to discern what writings should be considered authoritative - a process that continued well beyond the lifetime of the apostles.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Where do you get the idea we're advocating "individualistic leading"?
                        I get it from seeing people who talk this way incredibly often. Happens constantly.

                        As for how we got the book, sure. We do believe the Spirit was involved, but there were other criteria for the books that were chosen.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                          I get it from seeing people who talk this way incredibly often. Happens constantly.

                          As for how we got the book, sure. We do believe the Spirit was involved, but there were other criteria for the books that were chosen.
                          And those criteria were chosen by people.

                          I agree that the "I heard from God" is WAY overused and abused, but that doesn't mean He doesn't still speak to individuals.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                            I get it from seeing people who talk this way incredibly often. Happens constantly.

                            As for how we got the book, sure. We do believe the Spirit was involved, but there were other criteria for the books that were chosen.
                            Nick, it gets incredibly confusing when you reply to what we're saying, but are actually responding to what other people say without indicating that you're doing so. I'm not even sure what is meant by "individualistic leading".
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Nick, it gets incredibly confusing when you reply to what we're saying, but are actually responding to what other people say without indicating that you're doing so. I'm not even sure what is meant by "individualistic leading".
                              I'm guessing he means like (an extreme example) David Koresh, or the guy who claims God told him to blow up California...
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I'm guessing he means like (an extreme example) David Koresh, or the guy who claims God told him to blow up California...
                                Jesus was an extreme example before he was elevated to god.

                                Comment

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