The Silence of Heaven

[JonathanL]

I would want to examine each one on a case by case basis. What I would always want to know is how someone knows it's the Holy Spirit and not just their own desires.

I think if you don't like what it's saying to you can be sure it's atleast not your own desires, whatever else it might be.

[One Bad Pig]

Just a caution to people about claiming to hear the voice of God. I think we would both agree such an idea is overdone in the church too often today.

I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

I would want to examine each one on a case by case basis. What I would always want to know is how someone knows it's the Holy Spirit and not just their own desires.

Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.

[Cow Poke]

Just a caution to people about claiming to hear the voice of God. I think we would both agree such an idea is overdone in the church too often today.

I have occasionally experienced people telling me "God laid it on my heart to tell you....", to which I reply "Hmmmm, I spoke to Him for nearly an hour this morning, and He didn't say a word about that. Ask Him to tell me directly."

[Sparko]

I think Jesus pretty much tells us in John 14 that the Holy Spirit is there to be with us and to guide us in his stead so that we will not be alone.

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

[Cow Poke]

Promptings from the Holy Spirit should be safe, rare and legal.

[Sparko]

What did Jesus mean by John 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”?

Serious question. I took a class on Blakaby's "Experiencing God" at my Church once and he makes a big deal about that verse. Trying to make it sound like if you don't get messages from God then you don't belong to him.

I have never gotten any verbal or clear messages from God. I have had some promptings of my spirit that urge me to do something or other. And there are things I know I should do because I have the scripture to tell me so, or at least give me the general principal of what I should do in various situations.

[Cow Poke]

What did Jesus mean by John 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”?

Serious question. I took a class on Blakaby's "Experiencing God" at my Church once and he makes a big deal about that verse. Trying to make it sound like if you don't get messages from God then you don't belong to him.

I have never gotten any verbal or clear messages from God. I have had some promptings of my spirit that urge me to do something or other. And there are things I know I should do because I have the scripture to tell me so, or at least give me the general principal of what I should do in various situations.

There were two times in my life when I believe I had a clear message from God.

The most outstanding of the two was when my older brother was dying of cancer, and I didn't know how to pray. I went out on the end of the mile-long pier where my brother and I used to fish, and just poured my heart out to God, confessing that I didn't know if it was a matter of lack of faith on my part - that God wouldn't heal him, or that I should prepare for what appeared to be the inevitable.

(He had a rare form of cancer than had already invaded all of his vital organs, and was inside the cheeks of his mouth, his nostrils, his ears.... If he lived, what hope would there be?)

It was a very clear unambiguous message from God - "I'm bringing him home". It gave me an amazing peace, and I then knew how to pray, and was able to be a comfort to my 5 younger sisters.

[Apologiaphoenix]

What did Jesus mean by John 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”?

Serious question. I took a class on Blakaby's "Experiencing God" at my Church once and he makes a big deal about that verse. Trying to make it sound like if you don't get messages from God then you don't belong to him.

I have never gotten any verbal or clear messages from God. I have had some promptings of my spirit that urge me to do something or other. And there are things I know I should do because I have the scripture to tell me so, or at least give me the general principal of what I should do in various situations.

I think what it means is that if you are hearing and following the message of Jesus, you are hearing God in what Jesus says. Jesus is not talking about a personal individual experience.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

Sparko gave an example of Blackaby's teaching on this, which I can't support. It highly individualizes everything. I know too many churches where the whole idea was to do as you feel led and too many people trying to figure out what God is trying to tell them and His plan for their lives. Would that they spent so much time trying to understand the Scripture.

Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.

Open to that, but still clear and rare I think. I think a lot of people have zeal in the church today but not what Paul said, zeal according to knowledge. If they feel strongly about something, that's God communicating with them.

[Sparko]

I think what it means is that if you are hearing and following the message of Jesus, you are hearing God in what Jesus says. Jesus is not talking about a personal individual experience.

He was speaking to Pharisees about them not hearing God and saying that he did. He said that that they did not belong to God because they didn't hear or know what God wanted as if it should be self-evident to them if they did belong to God. Sounds pretty personal to me.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.

He was speaking to Pharisees about them not hearing God and saying that he did. He said that that they did not belong to God because they didn't hear or know what God wanted as if it should be self-evident to them if they did belong to God. Sounds pretty personal to me.

I don't see how that goes against what I said. To hear what Jesus said is to hear God. If you heed His words, then you are heeding the words of God.

[Sparko]

I don't see how that goes against what I said. To hear what Jesus said is to hear God. If you heed His words, then you are heeding the words of God.

So is it your opinion that the only guidance we get from God is by reading scripture then?

[Apologiaphoenix]

I'll have to take your word for it, because I'm not too familiar with that.

Well, the people who have been granted such abilities have spent decades denying their desires through ascetic practices. Anything reflecting self-glory is rejected straitway. One also must have a deep knowledge of the Scriptures, so one can test the spirits to see whether they be of God; anything contrary to Scripture is also rejected out of hand.

So is it your opinion that the only guidance we get from God is by reading scripture then?

God can give us other guidance if He wishes, but I think the primary way is Scripture. God gave us an entire book called Proverbs to learn how to make wise decisions. I see no reason to think he jettisoned that in the New Covenant.

[rogue06]

God can give us other guidance if He wishes, but I think the primary way is Scripture.

Speaking of which there is the long held belief that God provided man with two "books." One is of course scripture but a more general testimony is provided by nature - His creation.

[Sparko]

God can give us other guidance if He wishes, but I think the primary way is Scripture. God gave us an entire book called Proverbs to learn how to make wise decisions. I see no reason to think he jettisoned that in the New Covenant.

So God does lead and guide us, and we can hear from him?

You seem to be indecisive.

The scriptures give us general moral guidelines and parameters on how to act in various situations. But I know that I have felt God prompting me specifically in some circumstances, wanting me to do something. I have never "heard" an audible voice, but more of a feeling, a nagging at my conscience.