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Failed Apocalypticism

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  • Failed Apocalypticism

    "Say what you like," we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else."
    It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible... -- C.S. Lewis, The World’s Last Night and Other Essays, p.97

    I am compiling a list of scholars who essentially agree with the above. C.S. Lewis agreed with it, but of course as a man of faith, he didn't end there. So far I have come across the following living(?) scholars who align with that perspective:

    1) Dale C. Allison Jr.

    2) E.P. Sanders

    3) John P. Meier

    4) Gerd Ludemann

    5) Paula Fredriksen

    6) Bart Ehrman

    7) James D.G. Dunn

    8) John J. Collins

    9) Larry Hurtado(?)

    Please make any additions to this list of fine and distinguished scholars who hold to the failed apocalypticism thesis. This thread was created to dismantle any pomp surrounding discussions on eschatology. I am sure there are rebuttals by more conservative scholars, but I think the facts are few and far between when it comes to eschatology and perhaps theology in general. Let us remind ourselves that theology is intended to enrich our faith -- but faith it is, and faith it shall remain -- we should so hope.
    Last edited by Scrawly; 12-11-2018, 04:00 AM.

  • #2
    Well Christ did say that no one, not even himself, knew the hour and day - only God.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #3
      Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, Ellen G. White, William Miller, ...
      When I Survey....

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
        "Say what you like," we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else."
        It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible... -- C.S. Lewis, The World’s Last Night and Other Essays, p.97

        I am compiling a list of scholars who essentially agree with the above. C.S. Lewis agreed with it, but of course as a man of faith, he didn't end there.
        Thanks for bringing the essay to our attention. It is an interesting read. In context, what you're doing is quoting Lewis' synopsis of theoretical skeptical beliefs as his own. I'm not sure that's valid.
        So far I have come across the following living(?) scholars who align with that perspective:

        1) Dale C. Allison Jr.

        2) E.P. Sanders

        3) John P. Meier

        4) Gerd Ludemann

        5) Paula Fredriksen

        6) Bart Ehrman

        7) James D.G. Dunn

        8) John J. Collins

        9) Larry Hurtado(?)

        Please make any additions to this list of fine and distinguished scholars who hold to the failed apocalypticism thesis. This thread was created to dismantle any pomp surrounding discussions on eschatology. I am sure there are rebuttals by more conservative scholars, but I think the facts are few and far between when it comes to eschatology and perhaps theology in general. Let us remind ourselves that theology is intended to enrich our faith -- but faith it is, and faith it shall remain -- we should so hope.
        Would you mind providing sources which support inclusion of these names on your list? I'm not familiar with the works of all of them. John P. Meier is a Roman Catholic, but bends over backwards to accommodate the skeptical point of view. Gerd Ludemann is a skeptic. Paula Fredriksen is Jewish. Bart Ehrman is a skeptic. James Dunn is non-Trinitarian.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #5
          The scholarly writing is on the border between Christianity and the secular world. As such, you will see approaches such as sociological analyses or assumptions that scripture is just developed from the ideas of surrounding communities -- or that monotheism was a later development in Judaism.
          As you see, many Bible scholars aren't Christians and thus may not be seeking to build up the type of Christianity that many people practice.

          The unfortunate thing that often happens in the study of scripture is that we blame the scriptures or Paul or whomever for whatever things we don't understand about a writing.

          If you are not looking for a specific narrow topic of study, you can find some scholarly level studies on biblicalstudies.org.uk or you can get some decent audio classes from thenarrowpath.com

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          • #6
            I don't think it'll happen this century at least. But if even Christ Himself didn't know, who am I to guess. Might as well be ready for it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Thanks for bringing the essay to our attention. It is an interesting read. In context, what you're doing is quoting Lewis' synopsis of theoretical skeptical beliefs as his own. I'm not sure that's valid.

              Would you mind providing sources which support inclusion of these names on your list? I'm not familiar with the works of all of them. John P. Meier is a Roman Catholic, but bends over backwards to accommodate the skeptical point of view. Gerd Ludemann is a skeptic. Paula Fredriksen is Jewish. Bart Ehrman is a skeptic. James Dunn is non-Trinitarian.
              Any list that has Ehrman on it would cause me to hesitate.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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