Left Wing Christmas Carol

[rogue06]

This song repeatedly echos some of the stuff we have seen and heard from Starlight, little jimmy, Tas et al. ad nauseam

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[Starlight]

Obama wins the war on Christmas...

[Sparko]

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[LeaC]

I need a safe space.

[One Bad Pig]

This song repeatedly echos some of the stuff we have seen and heard from Starlight, little jimmy, Tas et al. ad nauseam

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That's not a "Christmas" carol, you culturally insensitive jerk.

[rogue06]

That's not a "Christmas" carol, you culturally insensitive jerk.

It is a left-wing Christmas carol

[LeaC]

It is a left-wing Christmas carol

Shouldn't that be a holiday carol?

[rogue06]

Shouldn't that be a holiday carol?

holiday = holy day

Probably should call it a winter festival carol or something like that.

[Starlight]

This song repeatedly echos some of the stuff we have seen and heard from Starlight, little jimmy, Tas et al. ad nauseam

Eh? It's just a silly song, if a bit boring, that repeats some of the sillier steoreotypes conservatives have about liberals and some of the dumber conservative imaginings and triggers. If anything, I listen to it as a parody of conservative idiocies.

Very little of it matches to things Tass, Jimmy, and I say here. Kinda sad you don't see that. Try actually reading our posts.

[Tassman]

This song repeatedly echos some of the stuff we have seen and heard from Starlight, little jimmy, Tas et al. ad nauseam

You mean Right-Wing stereotyping of Left-Wing memes in this Winter Solstice Yuletide Carol, as was celebrated by the pagans for thousands of years.

[rogue06]

You mean Right-Wing stereotyping of Left-Wing memes in this Winter Solstice Yuletide Carol, as was celebrated by the pagans for thousands of years.

It's cute when internet atheists think that Christmas somehow was meant to co-opt some pagan festival. Cute in like watching a particular clumsy puppy trip over his own feet sort of way.

[Tassman]

It's cute when internet atheists think that Christmas somehow was meant to co-opt some pagan festival. Cute in like watching a particular clumsy puppy trip over his own feet sort of way.

A sweet attempt at belittlement, but there’s little doubt that Christmas owes its roots to the pagan Roman holiday of Saturnalia, just as Easter observances have roots in pagan celebrations, notably of the pagan goddess Eostre, the Norse goddess of spring. Christianity has a long history of Christianising pagan festivals.

[oxmixmudd]

A sweet attempt at belittlement, but there’s little doubt that Christmas owes its roots to the pagan Roman holiday of Saturnalia, just as Easter observances have roots in pagan celebrations, notably of the pagan goddess Eostre, the Norse goddess of spring. Christianity has a long history of Christianising pagan festivals.

Easter especially is just similar timing. Jesus was crucified at passover which is at a similar time of year to the vernal equinox. The resurrection and its celebration have no 'pagan' origin, though some of the more entertaining ancillary aspects of how we celebrate it do derive from pagan celebrations at the same time of the year.

Christmas is more of a mix of pagan traditions revectored towards a celebration of christs birth. Either way, neither of them ARE pagan celebrations of the winter solstace or the vernal equinox and much of each celebration is uniquely derived directly from the christian faith or tradition.

Jim

[rogue06]

A sweet attempt at belittlement, but there’s little doubt that Christmas owes its roots to the pagan Roman holiday of Saturnalia, just as Easter observances have roots in pagan celebrations, notably of the pagan goddess Eostre, the Norse goddess of spring. Christianity has a long history of Christianising pagan festivals.

The Saturnalia festival was traditionally celebrated sometime between December 17th and 23rd. Christmas is on December 25th. If you're going to co-opt a holiday you generally don't want them taking place on different days.

The reason that December 25th was picked for Christ's birth was because the assumed date for His death (at least in the Western part of the Empire^[1]), since at least 200 AD, was March 25th^[2]. Back then it was assumed that truly righteous men lived a whole number of years, without fractions meaning that they died on the same day they were conceived on (see the Talmud for examples). In short, if He died on March 25th He therefore, or so it was thought, must have also been conceived on March 25th. Add 9 months to the date of conception and you arrive at December 25th as the date of birth.

The confusion arises over the fact that the earliest Christians weren't really into celebrating the birth of Christ (they were far more interested in His death)^[3] and Christmas celebrations really didn't get started in earnest until 379 or 380 at first in Constantinople and then started taking off in 386 after a sermon given by John Chrysostom.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.













1. In some parts of the East, especially in Asia Minor and in Egypt, they concluded that it was April 6th with the discrepancy being largely due to the difficulties of trying to translate an unfamiliar lunar calendar into a solar calendar.

2. Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) for one listed March 25th as the day of the conception of Jesus.

3. Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) actually mocked various Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as a "pagan" practice.

[Tassman]

The Saturnalia festival was traditionally celebrated sometime between December 17th and 23rd. Christmas is on December 25th. If you're going to co-opt a holiday you generally don't want them taking place on different days.

The reason that December 25th was picked for Christ's birth was because the assumed date for His death (at least in the Western part of the Empire^[1]), since at least 200 AD, was March 25th^[2]. Back then it was assumed that truly righteous men lived a whole number of years, without fractions meaning that they died on the same day they were conceived on (see the Talmud for examples). In short, if He died on March 25th He therefore, or so it was thought, must have also been conceived on March 25th. Add 9 months to the date of conception and you arrive at December 25th as the date of birth.

The confusion arises over the fact that the earliest Christians weren't really into celebrating the birth of Christ (they were far more interested in His death)^[3] and Christmas celebrations really didn't get started in earnest until 379 or 380 at first in Constantinople and then started taking off in 386 after a sermon given by John Chrysostom.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.













1. In some parts of the East, especially in Asia Minor and in Egypt, they concluded that it was April 6th with the discrepancy being largely due to the difficulties of trying to translate an unfamiliar lunar calendar into a solar calendar.

2. Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) for one listed March 25th as the day of the conception of Jesus.

3. Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) actually mocked various Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as a "pagan" practice.

December 25th is thought by many to have been chosen to celebrate Jesus' birth, because the Winter Solstice and the ancient pagan Roman midwinter festivals called 'Saturnalia' and 'Dies Natalis Solis Invicti' took place in December around this date. It was a time when people already celebrated things. So rather than attempt the elimination of a popular festival it was Christianised. Christianising pagan festivals was not an uncommon form of minimizing the importance of paganism and promoting Christianity in its stead.