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new report on Russian meddling ...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Whatever minimal influence Russia might have had on the election was likely significantly less than the influence the mainstream media had with their excessively negative reporting on Trump and endless puff-pieces about how great President Hillary is going to be.
    While the truth or falsity of that conclusion is debate worthy, it would be irrelevant to the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that there is substantial new research that shows Russia did in fact attempt to influence the election towards Trump by both energizing his base to vote for him and by discouraging likely Hillary voters from voting for her.

    Given how close the election was, that is no trivial matter. And there is a huge difference between domestic persuasive influences pro or con and FOREIGN influences designed to push the US in a direction favorable to that foreign government.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-17-2018, 07:31 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #17
      Came across this comment to an article, and I think it's pretty dang hilarious:

      RUSSIAN COLLUSION

      The Russians are the only reason Trump is president. They won him the election. And here is exactly how they did it.

      #1: They posted negative stuff about Hillary on Facebook
      #2: They release some factual emails of John Podesta's that they obtained during their typical espionage activities.
      #3: They.................

      hmmmmmmm......... well they must have done some other stuff... right? I mean certainly it is not that easy to defeat a can't lose candidate like Hillary. It can't be that easy for a person like Trump with no political experience to become President... can it?

      Is that all it takes, some Facebook post and a few leaked emails?

      Ok..... I know there must be more..... can some of you anti-Trump people help me out here...... I am fading fast.

      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
        The point of this thread is that there is substantial new research that shows Russia did in fact attempt to influence the election towards Trump...
        Except for the many example of them also doing the exact opposite. I posted about it earlier in the thread, and you completely ignored it.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Except for the many example of them also doing the exact opposite. I posted about it earlier in the thread, and you completely ignored it.
          If that is true, I still have about 25 more times I can ignore the content of your posts before I'll catch up to your record with me.

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #20
            I did actually simply miss this short post. A couple of things. First, we already know the Russians are trying to use social media to amplify divisions in the US. But to think that was their ONLY goal is naive. The issue here is brought forward in your first link, BTW (do you read the things you post links to?)

            Source: above

            The Russians weaponized social media to organize political rallies, both in support of and against certain candidates, according to the indictment. Although the Russians organized some rallies in opposition to Trump's candidacy, most were supportive.

            © Copyright Original Source



            If you read and pay attention to the content of that article, you'll notice that even the 'anti-trump' rallies tended to point in a direction that would energize Trump's base. So it should be clear to someone capable of more than 1 dimensional thinking that the weaponization of social media was in fact targeting both elements (enhancing internal strife and helping Trump win). In fact intelligently so that the two goals actually worked in concert to support each other.

            So I see nothing 'suspicious' about the new report focusing on the new information. The main finding of the analysis comes from quantifying the efforts and detailing the many facets of their approach which yields the unmistakable conclusion that they mounted a significant and effective effort to help Trump get elected through several elements of attack on various social media.


            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
              ...even the 'anti-trump' rallies tended to point in a direction that would energize Trump's base.
              Right...

              And all the anti-Hillary/pro-Trump nonsense didn't also serve to energize Hillary's base?

              Sorry, dude, but you can't have it both ways.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                While the truth or falsity of that conclusion is debate worthy, it would be irrelevant to the point of this thread. The point of this thread is that there is substantial new research that shows Russia did in fact attempt to influence the election towards Trump by both energizing his base to vote for him and by discouraging likely Hillary voters from voting for her.
                "Energizing his base" is a nonsensical term and can not in any way be quantified into actual votes. Same with "discouraging likely Hillary voters". If someone voted or didn't vote on the basis of a Facebook ad or a Twitter tweet, they are idiots and are far more to blame than some Russian troll.
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • #23
                  And there's the fact that the mainstream media did everything they could to energize Hillary's base and discourage Trump voters, and I'm pretty that had a far more dramatic impact on the election than a handful of memes that most people didn't even see.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Right...

                    And all the anti-Hillary/pro-Trump nonsense didn't also serve to energize Hillary's base?

                    Sorry, dude, but you can't have it both ways.
                    I'm sorry MM, but your naivete and lack of capacity to think tactically do not obviate the simple fact that
                    what was done was a two pronged approach where the goals were to divide and to influence the election in Trump's
                    favor. As was stated in your own link, the MAJORITY of the actions were pro-trump. That tells you right there
                    one of the goals is to help trump. The fact there were other actions that had the appearance of being anti-trump
                    would go more to the secondary goal of dividing, or perhaps and ALSO* just sneaky ways of further motivating Trump's base to
                    vote for him.

                    Jim

                    *one sign of one-dimensional thinking is the incapability of comprehending that the same act can have more than one goal.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      And there's the fact that the mainstream media did everything they could to energize Hillary's base and discourage Trump voters, and I'm pretty that had a far more dramatic impact on the election than a handful of memes that most people didn't even see.
                      As I said in a previous reply - even assuming your assessment of the MSM is correct (which I don't) - DOMESTICALLY - we are allowed to try to influence the vote one way or the other. Fox and friends did everything THEY could to discourage hillary voters and encourage trump voters. And each campaign did everything THEY could to get their opinion out there. That is all fair play - WE are allowed to try to persuade each others opinion in OUR election. This is showing how a foreign government with interests CONTRARY to our own is meddling in our buisiness. That is NOT ok. And it is not an acceptable counter to ANY dometica and legal campagain element for either candidate.

                      You just don't think MM.

                      Try THINKING before you write.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        "Energizing his base" is a nonsensical term and can not in any way be quantified into actual votes. Same with "discouraging likely Hillary voters". If someone voted or didn't vote on the basis of a Facebook ad or a Twitter tweet, they are idiots and are far more to blame than some Russian troll.
                        THAT is one of the stupidest comments you've made Bill. Try running any campaign effectively and not focussing on energizing and rallying the people likely to vote for you to get them out to the actual polls and place actual votes.

                        Energizing ones supporters is CRITICAL to winning an election. And anything moral/legal one can do to discourage votes for the opponent are ALSO critical. Why do you suppose so many campaigns run NEGATIVE adds. Do you think they put those adds together because they think discouraging votes for the opponent is a useless endeavor?



                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
                          As I said in a previous reply - even assuming your assessment of the MSM is correct (which I don't) - DOMESTICALLY - we are allowed to try to influence the vote one way or the other. Fox and friends did everything THEY could to discourage hillary voters and encourage trump voters. And each campaign did everything THEY could to get their opinion out there. That is all fair play - WE are allowed to try to persuade each others opinion in OUR election. This is showing how a foreign government with interests CONTRARY to our own is meddling in our buisiness. That is NOT ok. And it is not an acceptable counter to ANY dometica and legal campagain element for either candidate.

                          You just don't think MM.

                          Try THINKING before you write.
                          I think quite a lot about what I write, which is why I know you're spewing nonsense. What is "meddling", and why is it wrong? A few memes on Facebook that most people didn't even see? A few thousand dollars worth of ad buys in a battleground state where the candidates themselves are spending millions? Big deal. Let them "meddle". If American voters are allowing themselves to be significantly influenced by a picture and a funny caption they read on the internet then we've got a much bigger problem on our hands.
                          Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-18-2018, 09:22 AM.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            THAT is one of the stupidest comments you've made Bill. Try running any campaign effectively and not focussing on energizing and rallying the people likely to vote for you to get them out to the actual polls and place actual votes.
                            So, 2 questions:

                            1) Is it illegal for someone to try to get you out and vote?
                            2) How do you quantify how many people wouldn't have voted had you not ran a particular ad?

                            Energizing ones supporters is CRITICAL to winning an election. And anything moral/legal one can do to discourage votes for the opponent are ALSO critical. Why do you suppose so many campaigns run NEGATIVE adds. Do you think they put those adds together because they think discouraging votes for the opponent is a useless endeavor?
                            Of course they do. They are trying to convince the undecided that the other side isn't worth voting for because of x issue (more often than not blatantly exaggerating or leaving out critical information), yet again, is it illegal? And how do you quantify how many you convinced?

                            Claiming that the Russians "energized the base" is nonsensical. There is no way to know if they changed even ONE single vote with their miniscule few ads, so this is a colossal waste of time. It assumes the ads were seen, read, and acted on, which is completely unknowable.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            - Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The report https://comprop.oii.ox.ac.uk/wp-cont...eport-2018.pdf
                              says that the Russians were doing this since 2013, long before Trump was even thinking about running for President. So how does this tie in with Trump and "collusion?"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                The report https://comprop.oii.ox.ac.uk/wp-cont...eport-2018.pdf
                                says that the Russians were doing this since 2013, long before Trump was even thinking about running for President. So how does this tie in with Trump and "collusion?"
                                Because they, like the Simpson's writers, could see the future and predict Trump's presidency...

                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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