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Poll of views on US Civil War

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  • Poll of views on US Civil War

    I am intrigued by the extent to which people's views today differ to each other on the US Civil War. So out of personal interest, I'd like to poll people in this forum about their personal feelings on the subject. I am not interested in discussing the One True Historically CorrectTM view, but rather in trying to get a sense of people's thoughts and feelings, and in that sense there are no wrong answers here.

    1. Do you personally identify more with a particular side in the Civil War, if so which?
    (perhaps due to your ancestors fighting for one side, where you live now, your culture, your political party affiliation, your views on the morality of the war, your views on slavery etc)

    Answer these on a 1-10 scale please...
    2. How inevitable do you personally understand the Civil War as having been?
    (1= it would have been totally avoidable if a few individuals had made different decisions, 10= a civil war of some sort was totally inevitable eventually due to historical / political / social / economic forces in the early US)

    3. How justified do you view the Unionist participation in the war as being?
    4. How justified do you view the Confederate participation in the war as being?
    (1= totally unjustifed, 10= totally justified... don't feel a need to make these two add to 10, as in plenty of wars both sides are justified or both unjustified)

    To what extent do you view the Civil War as being about...
    5. ...the issue of slavery?
    6. ...states' rights and the ability to secede from the Union?
    7. ...something else?
    (1= not at all, 10= completely about it)

    How much do you agree with the statements:
    8. "I think that if the US had split during the civil war into two nations, that the overall political/economic/way of life/general happiness situation in the states would be better today than it currently is in a united US."
    9. "The Confederacy was seceding from the US which inherently made them 'traitors' to the US, while the Unionists were upholding the cause of the Union which inherently made them 'patriots' of it"?
    (1= total disagreement, 10= total agreement)

    At the time of the Civil War the Democratic party was associated with the conservative southern slave-holding confederate states, and the Republican party with the liberal northern slave-freeing unionist states, but in the 20th century the political parties changed alignment so that the Democratic party is now associated with liberal northern states and the Republican party with conservative southern ones. So there can be arguments both ways in terms of which of the modern political parties should be understood as aligned with which of the two sides in the civil war (and thus, perhaps, should be praised/blamed/atone/apologize for it). To what extent do you:
    10. Associate the Democratic party of today with the liberal northern slave-freeing Unionist side in the Civil War, and the Republican party of today with the conservative southern slave-holding confederate side in the Civil War?
    (1= other way around, 5= neither party with either side, 10= this way around)

    11. Had the Confederacy won and established an independent slave-holding nation, approximately what decade(s) do you believe the Confederacy would have abolished slavery in?


    For ease of filling out your answers, copy and paste this, then enter your answers:

    1. Which was/is 'your' side?
    2. Was it inevitable?
    3. Unionists were justified?
    4. Confederacy was justified?
    5. Was about slavery?
    6. Was about states' rights and secession?
    7. Was about something else?
    8. Hypothetical two nations better than one?
    9. Confederates were traitors, Unionists patriots?
    10. Modern Dems = party of liberal northern unionists, Reps = party of conservative southern confederates?
    11. Approx decade of abolition of slavery in hypothetical Confederacy?
    Last edited by Starlight; 12-17-2018, 11:36 PM.
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  • #2
    1. Which was/is 'your' side? South.

    2. Was it inevitable? No.

    3. Unionists were justified? Perhaps, needed to keep the country whole.

    4. Confederacy was justified? Perhaps, they were invaded.

    5. Was about slavery? Had to go.

    6. Was about states' rights and secession? States rights were paramount, secession was not good.

    7. Was about something else? No, about states rights and slavery.

    8. Hypothetical two nations better than one? No.

    9. Confederates were traitors, Unionists patriots? The winners write the history.

    10. Modern Dems = party of liberal northern unionists, Reps = party of conservative southern confederates? Too broad brush.

    11. Approx decade of abolition of slavery in hypothetical Confederacy? Early 1900s, technology like the early cotton picker machines would have made the majority of slaves too expensive and redundant.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      You haven't requested only American responses, so:

      1. Which was/is 'your' side? Neither
      2. Was it inevitable? 7
      3. Unionists were justified? 4
      4. Confederacy was justified? 3
      5. Was about slavery? 6
      6. Was about states' rights and secession? 3 (can't really separate these, since one issue was a state's right to legislate about slavery)
      7. Was about something else? 1
      8. Hypothetical two nations better than one? 6 (better in the north, worse in the south)
      9. Confederates were traitors, Unionists patriots? 1
      10. Modern Dems = party of liberal northern unionists, Reps = party of conservative southern confederates? 6
      11. Approx decade of abolition of slavery in hypothetical Confederacy? 1900s
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      • #4
        I'll bite:

        1. Which was/is 'your' side?
        Probably the Union because I think they were right to oppose slavery, but it's not a black and white issue.

        2. Was it inevitable?
        No.

        3. Unionists were justified?
        Considering the Confederates instigated the war by firing the first shot at Fort Sumter, yes.

        4. Confederacy was justified?
        Probably not.

        5. Was about slavery?
        Partly.

        6. Was about states' rights and secession?
        Partly.

        7. Was about something else?
        It's actually a very complex issue. Some of my reading on the subject has led me to believe that lot of it hinged on poor communication and political misunderstanding.

        8. Hypothetical two nations better than one?
        Historical precedent would suggest no.

        9. Confederates were traitors, Unionists patriots?
        It's not black and white.

        10. Modern Dems = party of liberal northern unionists, Reps = party of conservative southern confederates?
        There is a direct line through history connecting Southern slavers to the modern Democrat party.

        11. Approx decade of abolition of slavery in hypothetical Confederacy?
        It's impossible to say.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll bite.



          1. Which was/is 'your' side?

          My mother's ancestors fought for the South and my Father's ancestors fought for the North. I don't have a side.

          2. Was it inevitable?

          I think so. Unfortunately.

          3. Unionists were justified?

          In maintaining the union, very. Unfortunately, it was a might-made-right situation that decided if a state could choose to secede, and not diplomacy.

          4. Confederacy was justified?

          In demanding their sovereignty, since there wasn't clear precedent on secession? Yes.

          5. Was about slavery?

          The war itself? No. Secession? Absolutely.

          6. Was about states' rights and secession?

          The war itself? Yes. that and the sovereignty of each state.

          7. Was about something else?

          Cotton. Watch The Free State of Jones.

          8. Hypothetical two nations better than one?

          No. We are proven stronger together.

          9. Confederates were traitors, Unionists patriots?

          Too simplistic. From the Unionist standpoint, yes. From a state-sovereignty perspective, it's the opposite. Truth went to the victors.

          10. Modern Dems = party of liberal northern unionists, Reps = party of conservative southern confederates?

          Too simplistic. Again, watch Free State of Jones.

          11. Approx decade of abolition of slavery in hypothetical Confederacy?

          1890s probably. Maybe 1900s at the latest.
          Last edited by Bill the Cat; 12-18-2018, 01:09 PM.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            3. Unionists were justified?
            Considering the Confederates instigated the war by firing the first shot at Fort Sumter, yes.
            This is an interesting take:

            Source: https://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/Reflections/LinWar.html



            Confederate vice president, Alexander H. Stephens, claimed that the war was "inaugurated by Mr. Lincoln." Stephens readily acknowledged that General Beauregard's troops fired the "first gun." But, he argued, the larger truth is that "in personal or national conflicts, it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."

            © Copyright Original Source

            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting you should post this.

              For the past couple decades, having been in all kinds of discussions on the Civil War, and being somewhat of a history buff in that area, I have given this a lot of thought.

              For now, I'm going to bypass answering the questions, but I'll get to that.

              What has absolutely amazed me was that our Nation could ever get into a state where something was so important that it necessitated brothers killing brothers, cousins, family.... It's like some grand fog of muddled thought came upon the country, and it justified all the bloodshed.

              Then I watch as we become more and more polarized as a nation, and I'm wondering if that's how it all began. A "national mood" or something.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                This is an interesting take:

                Source: https://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/Reflections/LinWar.html



                Confederate vice president, Alexander H. Stephens, claimed that the war was "inaugurated by Mr. Lincoln." Stephens readily acknowledged that General Beauregard's troops fired the "first gun." But, he argued, the larger truth is that "in personal or national conflicts, it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."

                © Copyright Original Source

                That's a rather self-serving justification on Stephens' part.

                "Yes, we fired the first shot, but they made us do it!"
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  That's a rather self-serving justification on Stephens' part.

                  "Yes, we fired the first shot, but they made us do it!"
                  Hey the north had a fort that controlled a southern port. They could have left when asked.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As an aside, I lived in Ohio for my first two years of High School (Army brat) and endured the standard High School History course, including Civil War History.

                    When we moved back to Texas, continuing my college education, I found out that Texas (at that time) required all college students to take US History in Texas even if you had it elsewhere.

                    And I found out why when we covered "The Civil War". It was a TOTAL different war, with TOTALLY different "heroes", we focused on different "victories", different personalities, different battles, rationale, motivations....

                    It was summed up quite nicely by the professor who introduced himself (with a very pronounced southern drawl) and welcomed us to "this class - The War of Northern Aggression".

                    And that's how he referred to it the entire semester.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Hey the north had a fort that controlled a southern port. They could have left when asked.
                      And the Confederacy could have withdrawn its troops and sought a diplomatic solution.

                      Once someone uses aggression, it's their own hand that takes peaceful diplomacy off the table.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        As an aside, I lived in Ohio for my first two years of High School (Army brat) and endured the standard High School History course, including Civil War History.

                        When we moved back to Texas, continuing my college education, I found out that Texas (at that time) required all college students to take US History in Texas even if you had it elsewhere.

                        And I found out why when we covered "The Civil War". It was a TOTAL different war, with TOTALLY different "heroes", we focused on different "victories", different personalities, different battles, rationale, motivations....

                        It was summed up quite nicely by the professor who introduced himself (with a very pronounced southern drawl) and welcomed us to "this class - The War of Northern Aggression".

                        And that's how he referred to it the entire semester.
                        I lived in Virginia for many years, and once when covering a story in Danville (a city which to this day prides itself for being "The Last Capital of the South") about a new monument honoring Confederate soldiers, the city council woman who spoke at the unveiling ceremony made the mistake of suggesting that it was to honor "all those who fought and died in the Civil War". Those in attendance were not happy and began loudly booing.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          That's a rather self-serving justification on Stephens' part.

                          "Yes, we fired the first shot, but they made us do it!"
                          When South Carolina seceded, Sumter no longer belonged to the North, in the South's government's eyes, so Lincoln had no right to send ships there except to evacuate.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            When South Carolina seceded, Sumter no longer belonged to the North, in the South's government's eyes, so Lincoln had no right to send ships there except to evacuate.
                            Yes, but a diplomatic solution was still possible until the first shot was fired. Whoever fires the first shot bears the responsibility of ending any chance of a peaceful resolution. But, of course, it's not a black and white issue.

                            Interestingly, most people at the time expected hostilities to be concluded within a matter of weeks. If they knew that it was the start of a drawn out bloody conflict, I suspect both sides would have worked all the harder to avoid it.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              And the Confederacy could have withdrawn its troops and sought a diplomatic solution.

                              Once someone uses aggression, it's their own hand that takes peaceful diplomacy off the table.
                              They did try to resolve it with out violence, the North would not get off of the South's territory. And Fort Sumter was controlling one of the main ports in the South - Charleston Harbor.
                              Last edited by seer; 12-18-2018, 11:57 AM.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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